US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Reed Richards]

Still making it up on the fly I see. Tick Tock - still no proof of your accusations about me...

Jim

As promised, here is what BB thinks of his fellow East pilots. "as he could easily say":

And I don't think you want to get into the game of guilt by association with the skeletons in the East's closet. After all, I could easily say you refused to correct the injustice done to the Empire and Shuttle pilots, shoot holes in airplanes, run off the runway and into the water at LGA, don't know how to handle windshear, break the nose gear of airplanes, run into other airplanes, are a scab, etc.

Jim

 

[sumadarson]

Now we just sit and wait for the mega loss on LOA93 and watch this place implode.

AWA320 says NO to UBS's

The loa 93 will be decided in the companies favor, but it will be the beginning of the end for you. The DJ will be dismissed, then the company will fragment the west and the East.

The PHX base is not a strategic part of the future for any airline. Think about it. Check the west contract for your protection or lack thereof. I am the messenger.

 

[Pi brat]

And you're the one that pointed out that you and prechill are looking at two different things. Instead of blasting me - after all, you hate people not knowing what you're thinking - you should know that you are comparing apples with prechill's oranges.

And if I mis-remembered the start of this discussion (I thought it started yesterday with the number of Captains) I apologize - something no one on the East ever does from their lofty perch of knowing it all.

Jim

Oh yeah, I have been wrong and have admitted so on this very board. Anybody that is not trying to agree with the west at any cost would have said her theory is wrong.

 

[Pi brat]

Jim,
You are correct that the data is difficult to get and going straight to bid sheets is misleading- the numbers will not match the amount of training activity. The best way of approaching this is to look at how many people have gone through indoc on the east since the PID- you cannot get this info from head counts, if you did the company wouldn't have hired anyone. I estimate the east has put about 450 bodies through indoc below Monda (MDA pilots and new hires since the merger) based upon his position in the system in 2008. My 500 to 700 estimate was high.
Again, this is the best estimate. The fleet minimums number is elevated looking at the airframe flying hours in May, 2005 (i.e. on the eve of liquidation there wasn't as much utilization of equipment).

EDIT: It is amazing how Collelo has gone from furloughed to 767 first office in three years- that alone is pretty indicative of the growth in flying on the east.

Please, please, please tell me this is a ruse and you are not that dense. How many east pilots have left the seniority list since May 2005???????????? Remember that whole attrition issue? Collelo was back and had several hundred under him BEFORE the Nic came out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you have 5000 pilots, retire 500 and hire 50, has the seniority list grown? No! Indoc has nothing to do with it.

 

[luvthe9]

Now we just sit and wait for the mega loss on LOA93 and watch this place implode.

AWA320 says NO to UBS's

I have observed some interesting things about the way you think 320. Consider this- most owners of homes, when they see their neighbors list their homes for a good profit in the real estate market, hope their neighbor realizes that higher number. This, might possibly translate into a higher number for same neighbor, if he/she should consider selling. Most investors in equities likewise are hoping stocks they might not own might rise in value, and the same for the relative equities market. The logical conclusion being a rising tide lifts all boats, and the owner of equities might also profit. You, on the other hand, wish for a pilot in your own company to achieve and possibly maintain a lower salary, purely out of spite, apparently not realizing that the other employee achieving a higher salary, might raise the bar and thus raise your own salary. I said I observed some interesting things about the way you think. I certainly would not say that you think in a relatively intelligent manner.

 

[nic4us]

I heard the Streble and Mowery got to beating the #### out of each other and the cops had to be called in. This is what happens when UBS turn on one another

AWA320 says NO to UBS's

Well, I really do not think this is that funny. I do not know either one of these people, nor have I met them to my knowledge.

What I do know is that Streble came to a PHX meeting, then was ordered not to attend. Also, that Streble was just named in that letter from R. Peters about the HQ location.

All I know off the top of my head about Mowery is didn't he write the C&Rs?

In any event, I hope neither was seriously injured. There is precedence regarding a similar situation on the West, and if these two do not kiss and make up fast, one or both of them will be looking for employment.

 

[Pi brat]

Hi Jim,

2011 East and West Seniority Lists are available on Wings under Flight Operations/Miscellaneous Topics ( how appropriate!).

East shows 3403 pilots, West 1731.

East Bid 11-02 shows May 2011 headcount at 2605 pilots. Lots of LTD/LOA/Supervisory pilots I guess.

Let me try this with you PS. Do you agree that this airline(east) has grown, and that it's seniority list is greater now than 2005?

 

[Pi brat]

Nonsense. You tell me how many pilots were on the East seniority list on May 19 2005 and May 1 2011, then. After all, it was you that said that prechill was talking about the number on the seniority list and not line pilot headcount.

All I've said is that you can't compare seniority list numbers with bid head count numbers - apples and oranges. I thought at one time there was an East seniority list on wings but looked and can't find it (I think it was a 2008 seniority list anyway).

Jim

Nonsense? If someone tells you the sun is 200 miles away, but I can't give you the exact number of miles would you say they might be right, we can't tell?

I don't have 2005 seniority list. I will try to get it from my friend that I got the bid announcement from. But I do have this:

On page 783 nic4us said that in 2005 the west had 1884 pilots on their seniority list. I don't know if that was active or total, but let's go with active and say there was another few hundred and call it 2100, ok. When I look at the combined seniority list from Nic it lists the last pilot as #6520(that seemed high), so 6520 total minus 2100 west would leave 4420 east. The current seniority list on the USAPA web lists the bottom east number as 3494, Sulake. I'm just not finding any numbers that support a theory of the east growing, no matter how you spin it.

 

[Pi brat]

I did an internet search for 2005 US Airways pilot seniority list. I found this: http://www.planebusiness.com/planebuzzlinkfiles/mecusairways.pdf

I didn't see the whole list, but in this document it lists Monda's number at 4768 and he was the bottom active pilot, not the bottom pilot. The bottom pilot on the east list is now #3464. So in what world is that growth, much less the 700 number of preshill?

 

[GuntherA320]

Well, I really do not think this is that funny. I do not know either one of these people, nor have I met them to my knowledge.

What I do know is that Streble came to a PHX meeting, then was ordered not to attend. Also, that Streble was just named in that letter from R. Peters about the HQ location.

All I know off the top of my head about Mowery is didn't he write the C&Rs?

In any event, I hope neither was seriously injured. There is precedence regarding a similar situation on the West, and if these two do not kiss and make up fast, one or both of them will be looking for employment.

This is being blown way out of proportion. I asked my friend who is one of the high ups with the Charlotte Mecklenburg Police Dept to look into this for me. He read me the report. No one hit anyone and no charges were filed. Mowery was mad at Streble for scheduling a meeting when he would be unable to attend due to a doctors appt. Mowery got in Streble's face and Streble went to the police dept to file a report, but stated "I don't want to file charges". Nothing to see here. Move along.

 

[N924PS]

Let me try this with you PS. Do you agree that this airline(east) has grown, and that it's seniority list is greater now than 2005?

In looking at my USAirways Pilot Seniority Roster 2005, the bottom working pilot J. Monda was seniority number 3537. The bottom furloughed pilot was R. Aguiar seniority number 5246.

East 2011 list shows total 3403 with about 25 FURLOUGH status.

I don't see any growth. Just the usual shell game of being stagnant as airplanes leave but are seldom replaced with growth airframes.

 

[Pi brat]

In looking at my USAirways Pilot Seniority Roster 2005, the bottom working pilot J. Monda was seniority number 3537. East 2011 list shows total 3403 with about 25 FURLOUGH status.

I don't see any growth. Just the usual shell game of being stagnant as airplanes leave but are seldom replaced with growth airframes.

Thank you.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'm just not finding any numbers that support a theory of the east growing, no matter how you spin it.

I'm just going to give up on you re: this topic. If you told me that the sun is 200 miles away I'd know you're wrong because of factual data that says it's about 93 million miles away. You and prechilill are using disparate data to guess at a number, so are getting (or claim to be getting) differing numbers. If you can't understand that that is comparing apples and oranges, I can't help you. Besides, if I had access to the accurate seniority lists for <ay 2005 and the last bid that showed you that you were wrong, you wouldn't believe me anyway. The only reason I even got involved in this discussion was you mentioning that I might have the info.

It's sorta funny - there were a number of posts on a private webboard of East pilots today about trying to work out a compromise while here nobody will accept that they might be wrong about anything.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

The only reason I even got involved in this discussion was you mentioning that I might have the info.


Jim

I said I was sure you would tell us if I was wrong. When I am wrong, I say so. I'm not wrong about this.

PS just told the numbers he has, don't believe him?

 

[BoeingBoy]

As promised, here is what BB thinks of his fellow East pilots. "as he could easily say":

You are a piece of work. Blame me by guilt by association and complain when I illustrate that I could easily to the same. Some of you East posters are certainly hypocrites for following one standard them telling those who disagree you you all about the fair method to integrate lists that they can't use the standard you use.

Jim