US Pilots Labor Discussion

[OTTER574]

Otter, Otter Otter.....I'm messing with you. You called me young man, I countered, again just messing.

Absolutely, if we get a joint contract with the Nic, I see it as the seniority list of the US Airways pilots. What I don't know is if it is okay for USAPA to negotiate away from it. When I read the TA letter for letter, it seems that all parties have lived up to their obligations-we followed the process and ended up with the Nic. But.........the TA does not say it will be implemented or can never be changed, does it? Is it implied? I really don't know and won't tell anyone I have the answers. I also feel that the provision of the TA that calls for a joint contract to be in place trumps all, and there is no way anyone can predict when, or if, we will ever get that.

Pi Brat, please answer honestly.

If parker told my cba (usapa) tomorrow that the company has accepted the legal list..what could my cba do in regards to this?

parker may have a $billion of reasons not to.

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

Pi Brat, please answer honestly.

If parker told my cba (usapa) tomorrow that the company has accepted the legal list..what could my cba do in regards to this?

parker may have a $billion of reasons not to.

Otter

Honestly, I don't know, but I don't see him doing that. There is too much money to be made not doing it.

 

[Reed Richards]

If parker told my cba (usapa) tomorrow that the company has accepted the legal list..what could my cba do in regards to this?

Otter

Please, please..pick me! I want to answer. Your CBA "could" do nothing different than they would do if any section of the contract being negotiated was "accepted" or "rejected" by management at the table. Parker says $50/hr, we say $200. Means nothing.

Now, at the end of all this you get vote and make your choice. A hint..don't confuse the process with your voting on the product. Apples and Oranges. Making the sausage and all its intricacies has nothing to do with the outcome.

Nothing should be "imposed" on you contract wise by anyone (the Company, USAPA, the Mediator, the NMB, or the Courts) without you getting that vote. But fragmentation is another story. Looking at your Scope, you have not a vote or say in that matter. Yikes.

Pretty simple to me. But probably not pretty to you.

RR

 

[aquagreen73s]

I said what? I just came on this board in Sep09, should be interesting to see you pull some my posts prior to that date.

Nobody at USAPA promised a contract in any timeframe, pre election or otherwise. Don't even start with that cost neutral BS.

I had no comments on how long it would take the West to get to trial..see above...Sep09. But I was surprised just how quick the Addingtion boys did in the pooch..the filing was DOA, but is has cost us all over two years of no contract because of an unripe lawsuit.

No obstacles to a DOH contract..none legal, eventually, but none after that. But I have the same dilemma Boeing Boy has.. I cannot prove a negative.

Any party at any time can file a lawsuit, I did not see the one from Management coming..but I thought they were telling the truth when they said they would not get involved.

RR

Nobody promised a contract in any timeframe? Ummm....you (USAPA) did! http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Seham_Badali.mov

Just listen to Seham drone on and on about how once USAPA removes the roadblock, a joint contract with DOH was just around the corner.

You can feel all brave and smug while hiding behind a anonymous handle, but the fact is that your own constituents are figuring out that you and your USAPA founders have been lying all along. The fact is that USAPA can't achieve DOH and now we're finding out you can't even achieve a joint contract. You and your fellow USAPA founders manipulated the emotions of your fellow pilots so you can create your own utopia of flight pay loss and trip drops. ALPA was bad, but what you've created is far worse. Good luck going forward. I'm hearing too many East pilots on jumpseats flat out expressing anger towards you and your gangsters running USAPA. The West is content to sit back and watch the implosion.

Oh and I almost forgot: enjoy LOA 93!

 

[OTTER574]

Honestly, I don't know, but I don't see him doing that. There is too much money to be made not doing it.

Lcc accepted the NIC and stated it under oath once before. Statements do vary from the airline corporate/union (s) elite to keep the troops and gravy train inline.

Otter

 

[aquagreen73s]

Now, at the end of all this you get vote and make your choice. A hint..don't confuse the process with your voting on the product. Apples and Oranges. Making the sausage and all its intricacies has nothing to do with the outcome.
RR

The process is what counts in a DFR.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Looking at your Scope, you have not a vote or say in that matter. Yikes.

Pretty simple to me. But probably not pretty to you.

RR

49% of the East can disappear and you can't do a darn thing about it.

Industry bottom fragmentation, but that's what happens when you negotiate contracts when your company is facing liquidation.

 

[Reed Richards]

Oh and I almost forgot: enjoy LOA 93!

Too soon for you to say that.

3%,(per year starting May10,) 18%, 18% and more, the full Monty..or nothing. Whatever happens, and soon, it will be what it is..binding Federal Arbitration. Has a nice ring to it.

I have no clue as to the outcome and final payout/non payout of LOA 93..but too soon for you to gloat. You may have your day..or not.

RR

 

[OTTER574]

Please, please..pick me! I want to answer. Your CBA "could" do nothing different than they would do if any section of the contract being negotiated was "accepted" or "rejected" by management at the table. Parker says $50/hr, we say $200. Means nothing.

Now, at the end of all this you get vote and make your choice. A hint..don't confuse the process with your voting on the product. Apples and Oranges. Making the sausage and all its intricacies has nothing to do with the outcome.

Nothing should be "imposed" on you contract wise by anyone (the Company, USAPA, the Mediator, the NMB, or the Courts) without you getting that vote. But fragmentation is another story. Looking at your Scope, you have not a vote or say in that matter. Yikes.

Pretty simple to me. But probably not pretty to you.

RR

Please, please read the TA and come back when your not drunk or under the influence of medications?

The TA clearly states how the pilot groups seniority list of awa and aaa will be merged of which one item is remaining. That's a JOINT CONTRACT with lcc.....skippy

Otter

 

[aquagreen73s]

Too soon for you to say that.

3%,(per year starting May10,) 18%, 18% and more, the full Monty..or nothing. Whatever happens, and soon, it will be what it is..binding Federal Arbitration. Has a nice ring to it.

I have no clue as to the outcome and final payout/non payout of LOA 93..but too soon for you to gloat. You may have your day..or not.

RR

Only USAPians believe they'll win LOA93. When it goes south, so will all the hacks who've been pumping USAPA for the past three years. Your guys are pissed and now that they can't vent their anger on the West, guess where it's probably going next.

 

[AWA320]

The LOA93, that was an ALPA deal. Had ALPA remained you would be working under it right now. Oh..wait..

Seen a pension around here lately?

Now you see how completely moronic their statements are dont you?

AWA320 says NO to UBS's

 

[AWA320]

Nobody promised a contract in any timeframe? Ummm....you (USAPA) did! http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Seham_Badali.mov

Just listen to Seham drone on and on about how once USAPA removes the roadblock, a joint contract with DOH was just around the corner.

You can feel all brave and smug while hiding behind a anonymous handle, but the fact is that your own constituents are figuring out that you and your USAPA founders have been lying all along. The fact is that USAPA can't achieve DOH and now we're finding out you can't even achieve a joint contract. You and your fellow USAPA founders manipulated the emotions of your fellow pilots so you can create your own utopia of flight pay loss and trip drops. ALPA was bad, but what you've created is far worse. Good luck going forward. I'm hearing too many East pilots on jumpseats flat out expressing anger towards you and your gangsters running USAPA. The West is content to sit back and watch the implosion.

Oh and I almost forgot: enjoy LOA 93!

Dont you just LOVE catching them in LIES? They are so clueless that they can't even remember which lie the've told, when and who told it.

AWA320 says NO to UBS's

 

[Barrister]

The process is what counts in a DFR.

Wrong again....what counts is : Has the union proposed a list that
meets the wide range of reasonableness and is not arbitrary and
capricious. Guess what under that test you lose.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[prechilill]

Wrong again....what counts is : Has the union proposed a list that
meets the wide range of reasonableness and is not arbitrary and
capricious. Guess what under that test you lose IMO.

NICDOA
NPJB

So, how can that be if 85% of the west pilots go below all the east pilots? 'Splain that to me.

 

[biggie smalls]

Well what's your opinion on this......



PHL and DCA Help AOL Take Aim At DOH




Fellow Pilots,


If the title of this letter got your attention it should! You likely recall the ill fated trip made to PHX by USAPA Executive Vice President Gary Hummel and Secretary Treasurer Rob Streble - a trip that was purportedly the product of factional alliance building. You may also recall the commiseration between some of the PHL representatives and the PHX representatives that preceded that trip. What these events have in common is Mike Cleary and those who are staunchly determined to do anything that they can to cause him political harm at any cost.


It isn’t any great mystery why the PHX reps want to disrupt Cleary and those who support him. It is becoming increasingly clear that the courts are not going to help them stop DOH given USAPA’s handling of the matter thus far. So they are focusing their attack on the people primarily responsible for those efforts so they will cease. By themselves the PHX reps can do little to achieve their goals in this area, however if they are able to cajole the support of at least three east reps then they can have their way. Conveniently for them there are strong political activists with deep rooted disdain for Cleary (and therefore for our goals) who are happy to lend a hand just for the chance to unseat the President or at the very least cripple him politically - all of this with an obtuse disregard for the potentially disastrous consequences it would have for our seniority battle and our fight for a fair contract - names like Dave Ciabattoni and Woody Manear come quickly to mind.


If you are wondering why on earth any east rep would dance with the devil and risk our primary objectives of DOH and an industry standard contract then you are not alone. Suffice it to say that the political opposition as mentioned above has an unusually large amount of influence with some board members and are using them to advance their goal of controlling the agenda of the union despite their inability to do so through open involvement in the process. The PHX reps are understandably more than happy to oblige because what the leadership is doing now has us winning and they desperately want it to stop. Leonidas is certainly enjoying the infighting and would be happy to see us saddled with a known high crime property and the attendant Tort liability.


These efforts have been afoot for some time and have been apparent for all to see on occasion. The most recent example, however, comes packaged in sheep’s clothing to be sure.You have to be paying very close attention indeed to see it for what it is. When Dave Ciabattoni was in office, he began an effort to move the USAPA headquarters into a larger facility to accommodate growth. In his search he became singularly focused on a property immediately adjacent to the Best Western Sterling on Woodlawn in CLT. Executive Vice President Gary Hummel, in what cannot be a coincidence has latched on to the very same property with rabid vigor.


Now you must be wondering what possible connection there can be between the USAPA office selection and politics. Well, Gary Hummel with the help of Rob Streble and the DCA and PHL reps, have turned this issue into a political football and they are hell bent to use it to ambush Mike Cleary.


The search for a new office has been narrowed down to two choices, the Woodlawn location and one near the Hyatt Place on Tyvola called Lake Point. Hummel has been bore sighted on the Woodlawn and has done everything up to and including deliberately hiding facts about the shocking safety issues there from the BPR. The Woodlawn facility is in a state of desperate disrepair with prolific water damage throughout the interior, a fact that is sure to cause the likelihood of dangerous mold at a minimum, and it is in the very middle of an area rife with violent crime. Last year alone there were more than 170 crimes committed within 1000 feet including rape, prostitution, assault with a deadly weapon and numerous other drug related crimes.


Hummel has given two incredibly in depth presentations to the BPR, at least one of which included tediously detailed crime statistics, and there was no mention whatsoever of the alarming rate of crime at Woodlawn. Even more startling is the fact that the alternative property near the Hyatt Place had only 7 crimes over the same period - that’s right more than 170 at Woodlawn and only 7 near the Hyatt and absolutely no mention by Hummel of this fact. He has deliberately hidden vitally important information from the BPR because he is determined to choose the Woodlawn location in the face of reasonable business practice and common sense. It should be noted that only one BPR member in favor of the Woodlawn has seen these facilities in person, the rest are going on Hummel’s word.


Hummel’s response to these facts? You might want to sit down for this one... he asserts that the crime rate, which he does not refute, is not a problem because the majority of these crimes occur after midnight - this is not a joke. Unbelievable!


There was a telephonic BPR meeting on Friday during which a number of people weighed in on the matter - the USAPA staff, general counsel, and our buyers broker realtor himself all made the case that the Woodlawn location was a non-starter by nearly every measure. The crime alone would not only place the USAPA staff and volunteers in harm’s way but would place the Association and the BPR members themselves in a position of serious liability. Yet they appear to be bent on proceeding just the same. How can this be?


It appears that there has been some big league lobbying going on between some of the reps and various outside political activists. In fact, the night before the BPR meeting select BPR members participated in a private conference call - to strategize? to build alliances? to formulate a plan to take aim at Cleary? Who knows but it reeks of old ALPA style behind closed doors power politics – get your majority before the meeting and make it happen at any cost. It places the goals of a DOH list and an industry standard contract at serious risk as it seeks to impede the effectiveness of the very man shepherding those endeavors.


The manner in which they intend to do so is the irony of ironies - Hummel et al, by selecting a property that fails to meet even the most basic of safety standards and which by the way is a mere $25,000 annual difference in cost compared to the alternative choice, and by deliberately hiding salient facts from the BPR has forced Cleary to intervene - his responsibility as president mandates it. Additionally Hummel’s obscenely obstinate disregard for decency and due diligence has forced the president to assert himself in a vigorous fashion that is emblematic of the criticisms the political opposition loves to throw at him.


So they force him to take a commanding stance on the situation and then plan to crucify him for it. It is shocking to say the least that these representatives are allowing themselves to be so blindly led by those who would have us fail in our principal goals but they are doing so nonetheless. Therefore the responsibility for bringing a halt to these foolhardy actions unfortunately rests with you, the line pilot.


The BPR meeting reconvenes tomorrow, Tuesday January 25 at 1700 - do not waste one minute. Call everyone you know, send this letter to every US Airways pilot on in your email address book. Pick up your phone and call your reps, call all of the reps and convince them that you will not allow them to play games with your seniority or your contract, send them emails to the same effect. Do not put this off; they need to hear from you before the meeting.


Captain Rich Peters
CLT AB


Their contact information is listed below.


[email protected]
[email protected]
CLT
Bill McKee - Chairman
980-875-7644
ext. 4534
[email protected]

Steve Crimi - Vice Chairman
980-875-7645
ext. 4533
[email protected]

Dewitt Ingram-Vice Chairman
704-497-7246
ext. 4535
[email protected]

Send an email to the CLT representatives at
[email protected]

DCA
Joseph Stein - Chairman
704-264-6235
ext.4536
[email protected]

Pete Dugstad - Vice Chairman
980-226-0018
ext. 4556
[email protected]

Send an email to the DCA representatives at
[email protected]


PHL
Doug Burke - Chairman
980-875-7643 or
724-413-0738
ext. 4540
[email protected]

Roger Henriksson - Vice Chairman
704-458-5602
ext. 4541
[email protected]

John DuBarry - Vice Chairman
980-875-7641
ext. 4542
[email protected]

Send an email to the PHL representatives at
[email protected]