US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

pi brat, please explain what a NMB mediator will discuss in regards with usapa and the company at such negotiations regarding section 22 within my contract?

Please don't dwell too long on the TA, since oldie thinks it's doesn't exist.

Why are we going through the courts then? Because uspsa failed in it's DFR to represent the west class when it agreed to be our CBA of which by FEDERAL LAW they MUST honor all our/my contracts of which the TA and NIC is included.

If west or east pilots are members or not, have absolutely no bearing in this within FEDERAL LAW.

My FUNDED legal team will make sure of this.

Otter

Please don't tell us you think the Nicolau Arbitration is Federal. Please.

 

[Pi brat]

So, in your hypothetical of putting the West pilots on top, does that violate the West's DFR. If it is done by usapa unilaterally, without West representation, as part of a scheme of reneging on the arbitration, it certainly does. But, usapa would not get sued by the West for doing it.

From pi brat's idea of logical, that doesn't make sense, but that doesn't mean you are not right!

 

[luvthe9]

Technically, I really do not know, but, I suppose usapa can change section 22. However, because of the TA and the Nic, they have to get the West to go along with it. That is what I read in the 9ths, "harm Plaintiffs fear" and "unquestionably ripe DFR" comments.

Practically, no. The West is not going along, and if they changed it to put all the West pilots on top, the east would have a DFR because they did not use the Nic.

The Nic is the measuring stick by which any re-ordering of seniority will be compared. Of course RR and Swan and the like will argue that as long as there is a "wide range of reasonableness", it is a done deal. But think about that for a minute. How the heck can it be argued that it is "reasonable", even within a wide range, to unilaterally impose a new method, by striping the representation of a minority group that entered into final and binding arbitration, so that the other discontent group can ignore their commitments to that minority group and arbitration, and at the same time end up with a list that disadvantages that same minority.

So, in your hypothetical of putting the West pilots on top, does that violate the West's DFR. If it is done by usapa unilaterally, without West representation, as part of a scheme of reneging on the arbitration, it certainly does. But, usapa would not get sued by the West for doing it.

The Final and Binding? That was an ALPA deal. Change of bargaining agents. No more Nic. Had ALPA remained, you would be correct. It would be final and binding. The devil is in the details. B)

 

[Pi brat]

pi brat, please explain what a NMB mediator will discuss in regards with usapa and the company at such negotiations regarding section 22 within my contract?

Don't ask me, I am just a pilot that doesn't pretend to know all the answers, that's why I asked you. But, to be honest, you kinda lost your credibility when you started adding up your damages from the Addington.

 

[luvthe9]

Technically, I really do not know, but, I suppose usapa can change section 22. However, because of the TA and the Nic, they have to get the West to go along with it. That is what I read in the 9ths, "harm Plaintiffs fear" and "unquestionably ripe DFR" comments.

Practically, no. The West is not going along, and if they changed it to put all the West pilots on top, the east would have a DFR because they did not use the Nic.

The Nic is the measuring stick by which any re-ordering of seniority will be compared. Of course RR and Swan and the like will argue that as long as there is a "wide range of reasonableness", it is a done deal. But think about that for a minute. How the heck can it be argued that it is "reasonable", even within a wide range, to unilaterally impose a new method, by striping the representation of a minority group that entered into final and binding arbitration, so that the other discontent group can ignore their commitments to that minority group and arbitration, and at the same time end up with a list that disadvantages that same minority.

So, in your hypothetical of putting the West pilots on top, does that violate the West's DFR. If it is done by usapa unilaterally, without West representation, as part of a scheme of reneging on the arbitration, it certainly does. But, usapa would not get sued by the West for doing it.

By the way Nic, didn't the House of Rep. just strip the representation of a minority group(dems) and repeal the health care bill in the House? How would that be cause for a lawsuit and be so unfair as you say. It is called ruling majority, and it happens ALL the time.It is the American way!

 

[Pi brat]

Let s see, 8:50 eastern, 6:50 PHX, delay a half hr. for the Simpsons, and maybe another for Family Guy, ...............incoming!

A couple games of Grand Theft Auto.........................just kidding, just kidding guys, playing on the west "kids" line! We on the east can't even fire up the PS 3.

 

[nic4us]

The Final and Binding? That was an ALPA deal. Change of bargaining agents. No more Nic. Had ALPA remained, you would be correct. It would be final and binding. The devil is in the details. B)

The LOA93, that was an ALPA deal. Had ALPA remained you would be working under it right now. Oh..wait..

Seen a pension around here lately?

 

[luvthe9]

The LOA93, that was an ALPA deal. Had ALPA remained you would be working under it right now. Oh..wait..

Seen a pension around here lately?

No, they got that in the middle of the night. ALPA, just another corrupt family operation......

 

[OTTER574]

Please don't tell us you think the Nicolau Arbitration is Federal. Please.

I guess you're kinda slow here. Search what laws and what courts have JURISDICTION in regards to DFR cases?

Also research the history of where the term DFR comes from?

I've all the links but knowing the usapa brain trust, it'll be a waste of band width.

Otter

 

[OTTER574]

Don't ask me, I am just a pilot that doesn't pretend to know all the answers, that's why I asked you. But, to be honest, you kinda lost your credibility when you started adding up your damages from the Addington.

The damages are very real and counting young man with a union and east pilot group that have been known to break federal law called DFR.

Otter

 

[nic4us]

By the way Nic, didn't the House of Rep. just strip the representation of a minority group(dems) and repeal the health care bill in the House? How would that be cause for a lawsuit and be so unfair as you say. It is called ruling majority, and it happens ALL the time.It is the American way!

You actually went there and compared usapa with the House of Representatives? Too funny!

First, was the health care bill reached by means of final and binding arbitration between the Dems and Reps?

Second, did the Dems government aquire the Reps government in a reverse aquisition?

Third, did the Reps have members furloughed, then steal the seats in the House from the Dems?

If you answered yes to any of the above, then the Dems have the right to start a revolution, round up the Reps and throw the Reps behind bars.

That is the American way.

 

[Phoenix]

I guess you're kinda slow here. Search what laws and what courts have JURISDICTION in regards to DFR cases?

Also research the history of where the term DFR comes from?

I've all the links but knowing the usapa brain trust, it'll be a waste of band width.

Otter

Perhaps we can all accept the maxim that a Federal Court knows Federal Arbitration when it sees it...

I think the 9th is a Federal Court.. I mean maybe it is. Nic4Us might know better than I do.

The 9th called it an Internal Union Process and forgot to mention "Federally Arbitrated." Surely they would be willing to correct their oversight if it was politely pointed out to them.

Maybe send them a box of chocolates along with your letter of correction.

 

[Pi brat]

The damages are very real and counting young man with a union and east pilot group that have been known to break federal law called DFR.

Otter

Hey! I'm and eastie and I'm old! Give me the respect I deserve, whippersnapper.

Okay, westies avoid this, let's try you. The TA says ANY combined seniority list will not be used until we have a joint contract. I will give you that we reached a joint seniority list called the Nic, you tell me when the last piece of the puzzle that would establish you damages, a joint contract, would have occurred absent USAPA.

Counting? Tell me your total due.

See what I mean guys?

 

[nic4us]

Perhaps we can all accept the maxim that a Federal Court knows Federal Arbitration when it sees it...

I think the 9th is a Federal Court.. I mean maybe it is. Nic4Us might know better than I do.

The 9th called it an Internal Union Process and forgot to mention "Federally Arbitrated." Surely they would be willing to correct their oversight if it was politely pointed out to them.

Maybe send them a box of chocolates along with your letter of correction.

Maybe you can have Seeham ask them the next time he is there, if they are willing to hear his appeal to the company's DJ.

 

[OTTER574]

Don't ask me, I am just a pilot that doesn't pretend to know all the answers, that's why I asked you. But, to be honest, you kinda lost your credibility when you started adding up your damages from the Addington.

So I guess what your saying pi brat is that I must sue a union and a group of pilots to treat me FAIRLY in regards to my contract and the TA? Done that and honesty it was quite easy and will be easier the next time. Under alpa I had my own rights along with you. Under usapa, they must do this for all us airways pilots.

The NIC is WRITTEN in STONE because of you and your east pilots that elected usapa.

How you choose to delay is up to you and it will get expensive on usapa's part.

BTW, please take a look at the companies DJ filing in Federal Court. Count for me how many times they state the Addington case that the usapa brain trust states never happened is actually listed in their filing?

Otter