US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Jim, do you think I'm a union busting scab as I have been labled for being a east pilot?

Depends I guess. According to Nos I single-handedly stapled the Empire pilots from my lofty perch as an ALPA rep, a claim he's made several times. I haven't seen you come to my defense as Nos repeatedly tossed those lies. For whatever reason you seem to have a sensitivity to West comments that is largely lacking when East posters do the same. Oldie seems incapable of saying anyone who disagree with him is wrong without putting in a kidney jab aimed at the person he claims is wrong. BS, MM, Luvthe9, Nos, etc have no compunction against taking their jabs at those on the other side. Nos is certainly not bashful about labeling those on the other side as scabs although even the link he provides proves that that was a very gray area - no legal picket line since the Aussie pilots didn't go on strike but resigned their jobs. Ironically, even the head of the Aussie union wrote a book in which he said that the HP & UA pilots didn't cross a picket line because there was no strike. Yet Nos routinely tosses the scab attack at West pilots. Where's your thin skin about scab attacks when he does?

In short, if USAPA is successful in throwing out final and binding arbitration so easily they've basically eliminated the usefulness of arbitration - something no real union would want. Hence, despite the claims of all the "friend of the court" filings that would descend on the District Court pleading USAPA's case, there were none - not a single other union filed a "friend of the court" brief on USAPA's behalf in any court so far. Despite all the East "real unionists" bs, that should tell you something about what the other unions think of USAPA and it's tactics.

Jim

ps - it's a little early for Nos to show up but I don't want him to get the impression that I don't care so:

Tick Tock Tick Tock...where's that proof Nos?

 

[OTTER574]

Owns it? I guess you do, I do, every other US pilot does and the company. But, I own a lot of things that I don't use or I replace. I think that is the real question, can the same be done with a seniority list? I don't know, but just like you, will have to wait and see.

I don't have fears, frustrations, but not fears. You guys forget how I feel about our situation sometimes.

You got the first part right but the company does not own the LIST. They've ACCEPTED it and paid for it via a contract called the TA.

Your definition of wait and see may mean harm to myself and many others.

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

Depends I guess. According to Nos I single-handedly stapled the Empire pilots from my lofty perch as an ALPA rep, a claim he's made several times. I haven't seen you come to my defense as Nos repeatedly tossed those lies. For whatever reason you seem to have a sensitivity to West comments that is largely lacking when East posters do the same. Oldie seems incapable of saying anyone who disagree with him is wrong without putting in a kidney jab aimed at the person he claims is wrong. BS, MM, Luvthe9, Nos, etc have no compunction against taking their jabs at those on the other side. Nos is certainly not bashful about labeling those on the other side as scabs although even the link he provides proves that that was a very gray area - no legal picket line since the Aussie pilots didn't go on strike but resigned their jobs. Ironically, even the head of the Aussie union wrote a book in which he said that the HP & UA pilots didn't cross a picket line because there was no strike. Yet Nos routinely tosses the scab attack at West pilots. Where's your thin skin about scab attacks when he does?

In short, if USAPA is successful in throwing out final and binding arbitration so easily they've basically eliminated the usefulness of arbitration - something no real union would want. Hence, despite the claims of all the "friend of the court" filings that would descend on the District Court pleading USAPA's case, there were none - not a single other union filed a "friend of the court" brief on USAPA's behalf in any court so far. Despite all the East "real unionists" bs, that should tell you something about what the other unions think of USAPA and it's tactics.

Jim

Wow! So in your mind whether I'm a SCAB or not is based on lack of defense of you? To be honest Sir, I didn't think you needed my help. Let me help you, I have never and never will be a SCAB.

I don't like a lot of the bombs that are dropped on fellow pilots, including you. I answered AWA 320 because I thought someone needed to tell him how stupid that sounded. I took offense at the SCAB comment because it is aimed at me!

 

[OTTER574]

That is pretty funny.........how many times have you guys said Parker and Kirby lie and can't be trusted? What does that have to do with anything I said?

By all means, let me know when the company enjoins usapa down it's illegal DFR path.

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

You got the first part right but the company does not own the LIST. They've ACCEPTED it and paid for it via a contract called the TA.

Your definition of wait and see may mean harm to myself and many others.

Otter

And that same contract called the TA states that it will not be used until a joint contract is in place, right? And it is not in place, right? And west actions have helped delay that contract(even if you were right to file the Addington, there is no doubt it helped delay a contract), right? So Otter, whether it hurts you, me or everyone, we indeed will have to wait. RIGHT?

 

[Pi brat]

By all means, let me know when the company enjoins usapa down it's illegal DFR path.

Otter

Something tells me you won't need me to tell you if that happens, but I am pretty sure nobody is going to take your word that it is indeed illegal. I think we will be waiting for DFR II to get the answer to that burning question.

 

[Pi brat]

I haven't seen you come to my defense as Nos repeatedly tossed those lies. Jim

ps - it's a little early for Nos to show up but I don't want him to get the impression that I don't care so:

Tick Tock Tick Tock...where's that proof Nos?

BTW Jim, I have defended you in the past. You were being accused of being an ALPA shill and I stated that I remembered your posts from the ALPA web and that was not the case. You called it like you saw it and I remembered you being one of the biggest opponents of LOA 93.

Mind if I steal you line? Tick Tock Tick Tock nic4us.

 

[OTTER574]

And that same contract called the TA states that it will not be used until a joint contract is in place, right? And it is not in place, right? And west actions have helped delay that contract(even if you were right to file the Addington, there is no doubt it helped delay a contract), right? So Otter, whether it hurts you, me or everyone, we indeed will have to wait. RIGHT?

Pi Brat,

You had the same rights under alpa.

When east pilots hired a cba to intentionally do harm to a certain group of pilots..We've no choice but to sue.

And thanks for stating the obvious..Joint contract means the legal list called the George Nicolau Award is implemented via the TA. Which is the legal list contract with LCC concerning this pilot group.

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

Pi Brat,

You had the same rights under alpa.

When east pilots hired a cba to intentionally do harm to a certain group of pilots..We've no choice but to sue.

And thanks for stating the obvious..Joint contract means the legal list called the George Nicolau Award is implemented via the TA. Which is the legal list contract with LCC concerning this pilot group.

Otter

As ususal, with 9 out of 10 west pilots, you didn't answer my questions.

 

[OTTER574]

Something tells me you won't need me to tell you if that happens, but I am pretty sure nobody is going to take your word that it is indeed illegal. I think we will be waiting for DFR II to get the answer to that burning question.

Reality check Pi Brat. The company has helped paint usapa in the corner.

Could you please explain in great detail what company will expose itself to a losing 250 + - million dollar lawsuit? So to satisfy some malcontent east pilots.

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

Reality check Pi Brat. The company has helped paint usapa in the corner.

Could you please explain in great detail what company will expose itself to a losing 250 + - million dollar lawsuit? So to satisfy some malcontent east pilots.

Otter

Reality check from a west pilot!!!!!!!!! Thanks Otter, it's been a long week, I needed that!

250 million. A little less than they have saved by delaying a joint contract all these years. I think Doug and Co have played us ALL like a fiddle. We dropped this in his lap, why wouldn't he? I really don't think he is too worried about USAPA or AOL, but will play this for as long as possible, then take the road that is cheapest for US Airways. That is the road they always take.

You need to hear this: You very may well win, but it is looooooooong from over. That is not a threat or prediction, just the way I see it. Only when we both retire will we be able to say whether it was worth it.

Take care.

 

[OTTER574]

Reality check from a west pilot!!!!!!!!! Thanks Otter, it's been a long week, I needed that!

250 million. A little less than they have saved by delaying a joint contract all these years. I think Doug and Co have played us ALL like a fiddle. We dropped this in his lap, why wouldn't he? I really don't think he is too worried about USAPA or AOL, but will play this for as long as possible, then take the road that is cheapest for US Airways. That is the road they always take.

You need to hear this: You very may well win, but it is looooooooong from over. That is not a threat or prediction, just the way I see it. Only when we both retire will we be able to say whether it was worth it.

Take care.

Pi Brat,

When you don't have truth and honesty on your side...lawsuits are not fun.

Parker may tell the NMB just what he thinks about usapa and how they negotiate in good faith==PARKED.

Parker could call mike cleary tomorrow to tell him we've accepted a legal list..please by all means sue lcc mike for acceptance of a LEGAL LIST.

Otter

 

[cleardirect]

Reality check from a west pilot!!!!!!!!! Thanks Otter, it's been a long week, I needed that!

250 million. A little less than they have saved by delaying a joint contract all these years. I think Doug and Co have played us ALL like a fiddle. We dropped this in his lap, why wouldn't he? I really don't think he is too worried about USAPA or AOL, but will play this for as long as possible, then take the road that is cheapest for US Airways. That is the road they always take.

You need to hear this: You very may well win, but it is looooooooong from over. That is not a threat or prediction, just the way I see it. Only when we both retire will we be able to say whether it was worth it.

Take care.

Hang on. Parker played us ALL?

The west negotiated, mediated and arbitrated. We accepted the results and want to move towards a contract.

The east refused to modify your position after being told by the arbitrator that your position would not prevail.
You cried to ALPA after you did not get your way. The east filed a law suit against the west. The east walked away from the JNC process.
The east formed a new union to avoid your obligation. The east has delayed contract negotiations because you refuse to accept the agreed to list.

So how has he played us all? You guys are playing yourself.

 

[Pi brat]

Hang on. Parker played us ALL?

The west negotiated, mediated and arbitrated. We accepted the results and want to move towards a contract.

The east refused to modify your position after being told by the arbitrator that your position would not prevail.
You cried to ALPA after you did not get your way. The east filed a law suit against the west. The east walked away from the JNC process.
The east formed a new union to avoid your obligation. The east has delayed contract negotiations because you refuse to accept the agreed to list.

So how has he played us all? You guys are playing yourself.

Yeah, keep telling yourselves that, it might help. Your self-righteous cluelessness is charming.

 

[prechilill]

The thing is I can give you an answer to your question, I have it right here on my computer. That is not hypothetical. Nic can't answer mine because nobody knows and he refuses to acknowledge that even absent a USAPA victory, a joint contract was going to be a tough row to hoe.

You guys would be better served with sticking to the "it doesn't matter is Nic is unfair, we abided by the process" arguement.

But thanks for the compliment!

So your computer is telling you what date the harm will occur? Your computer is telling us how much harm Nicolau will do? Great! Give me the numbers pal! You omitted them in your above post