US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AWA320]

No double standard on my part. You, however, have a big problem with the "me, me me" concept that ALPA represents. The ONLY union that has all of these merger issues is ALPA, because fairness is foreign to them. So, in a nutshell, if you embrace ALPA and its principles, I consider you "clueless".

And what is it that usapa represents?????? "me me me its my turn and I was wronged so now its my turn to wrong you" Please, Jim is 100% correct regarding your double standard. Like I said usapa is nothing more than union busting scabs.

AWA320

 

[Pi brat]

I would hope that PI would say that such a comment only makes you look stupid. What have you to say, PI? Do you have a double standard or equal scorn for name calling?

Jim

Double standard? I don't think so, but I guess I could be biased towards those that are from my own group. I would like to think that I take into account what is being said. Just last week I took on both sides, defending the west, saying they didn't steal.

I don't think I have seen any comments quite like 320's from anyone else on either side of this. This every other post "union busting scabs", ""fear, fear, fear"and "dumb as butter". Jim, do you think I'm a union busting scab as I have been labled for being a east pilot?

 

[Pi brat]

VI. Operational Pilot Integration
A. Except as provided in paragraph B. below, the
airline operations of America West and US
Airways, with respect to pilots, shall be merged no
later than twelve (12) months following the later
of (i) completion of the integrated pilot seniority
list and (ii) negotiation of the Single Agreement
provided that if by that date a single FAA operating
certificate has not been issued, the airline
operations, with respect to pilots, will be merged
effective with the first bid period following thirty
(30) days after the issuance of such certificate.
The Airline Parties will make every reasonable
effort in good faith to secure a single FAA
operating certificate for America West and US
Airways as promptly as practicable. The merger
of the airline operations, with respect to pilots,
under this paragraph A. is defined as the
“Operational Pilot Integration.”

The intent of all of this was to merge the company and the pilots.

What is usapa's intent? What was the dual unionist at east ALPA's intent, and stated goal? Permanent seperate ops ring a bell?

usapa and the east are forcing seperate ops. Why?

Okay now you have proven you can cut and paste, but STILL not answer my question. DO IT!!!!!!!!!! Give me the date a joint contract would have been done.

If, as you claim, USAPA were forcing separate ops I would have to guess they feel separate ops are better than joint ops with the Nic. Another question: Had the Nic gone badly for the west, wouldn't the west been able to delay and force separate ops with the dual ratification provision of the TA?

Just answers, please.

p.s. I underlined the most important word in your cutting and pasting for you

 

[prechilill]

Okay now you have proven you can cut and paste, but STILL not answer my question. DO IT!!!!!!!!!! Give me the date a joint contract would have been done.

If, as you claim, USAPA were forcing separate ops I would have to guess they feel separate ops are better than joint ops with the Nic. Another question: Had the Nic gone bacly for the west, wouldn't the west been able to delay and force separate ops with the dual ratification provision of the TA?

Just answers, please.

p.s. I underlined the most important word in your cutting and pasting for you

Ok, two can play that game big guy. Show me exactly when an east pilot will be hurt by Nicolau- please give dates (beginning on the first day) and monetary value going forward. Thanks!

(Don't you love asking for concrete dates and numbers in hypothetical arguments)

 

[Pi brat]

Ok, two can play that game big guy. Show me exactly when an east pilot will be hurt by Nicolau- please give dates (beginning on the first day) and monetary value going forward. Thanks!

(Don't you love asking for concrete dates and numbers in hypothetical arguments)

The thing is I can give you an answer to your question, I have it right here on my computer. That is not hypothetical. Nic can't answer mine because nobody knows and he refuses to acknowledge that even absent a USAPA victory, a joint contract was going to be a tough row to hoe.

You guys would be better served with sticking to the "it doesn't matter is Nic is unfair, we abided by the process" arguement.

But thanks for the compliment!

 

[Freighterguynow]

They dismissed the DFR claim because they recognize that usapa is capable of stalling the negotiating process.

and see if you are stupid enough to get yourselves sue a second time, because that would actually be quicker.

So maybe in 2 or 3 years you can start down the path to DFR 2. Just be sure to picture THAT one on a real life court schedule not the 'hobby' judge.



We dare not speculate how long the declaratory action will drag on, but two points are worth noting. Six months into Addington we were finishing the discovery stage and headed into trial. Here, we haven’t received a ruling on any preliminary substantive motions, including Seham’s motion to dismiss

 

[OTTER574]

The thing is I can give you an answer to your question, I have it right here on my computer. That is not hypothetical. Nic can't answer mine because nobody knows and he refuses to acknowledge that even absent a USAPA victory, a joint contract was going to be a tough row to hoe.

You guys would be better served with sticking to the "it doesn't matter is Nic is unfair, we abided by the process" arguement.

But thanks for the compliment!

Pi Brat, who owns the george nicolau award?

Answer is quite simple and BTW, it's never going away.

Fix your fears in other parts of the contract or move on and get out of the way.

Otter

 

[Freebird]

Yea, and Coello was an F-4 fighter pilot before you were even born and paid dues for 17 years.
You can't even carry his dirty JOCK STRAP and you think it is OK to put a new hire in front of him.
Ain't gonna happen. Especially when that new hire will fly 20-30 more years after Coello is gone.

NICDOA
NPJB

If he's so qualified, why didnt he get a job a another carrier? The writing has been on the wall back east for a long time. The carrier was dying. Was he not smart enough to recognize this? How many others took jobs elsewhere? Giving the one fingered salute to "USAir"?

USAPA = Wasting away again in FPL-Lossville.

 

[flypg]

Ok, two can play that game big guy. Show me exactly when an east pilot will be hurt by Nicolau- please give dates (beginning on the first day) and monetary value going forward. Thanks!

(Don't you love asking for concrete dates and numbers in hypothetical arguments)

Hey Tuts...How is that CLT bid coming along ?

 

[Freebird]

I don't like to lump west or east into the same way of thinking because it aggravates me when it is done to me, but with stealing of the jobs things I think the west is over simplifying things when they say that absent USAPA west pilots would not have been damaged. The Nic award was a game changer, period. Even if USAPA had not been elected achieving a joint contract would have been very hard, because that was the last speed bump to the Nic. The ALPA plan was to delay a joint contract in order to put pressure on the west to give concessions to it. Joint ratification was the veto available to both groups and as bad as the Nic was perceived on the east, it would have been used, for at least a while, and by then oil took off and the company was in no mood to raise their costs.

Both sides agreed to Binding Arbitration. What part did you guys miss?

USAPA = How much have we cost YOU?

 

[Freebird]

Hey Tuts...How is that CLT bid coming along ?

About as well as your DOH scheme. USAPA is a failure. Move on.


USAPA = Parker says "Thank You". He loves him some LOA93. Obviously USAPA does too !!!

 

[Pi brat]

Both sides agreed to Binding Arbitration. What part did you guys miss?

USAPA = How much have we cost YOU?

Not sure why you addressed that to me, I've missed nothing. Maybe you can answer as no other west pilot has. Would it have been possible for the west pilots to have delayed the implementation of a joint contract/seniority list under ALPA?

 

[Pi brat]

Pi Brat, who owns the george nicolau award?

Answer is quite simple and BTW, it's never going away.

Fix your fears in other parts of the contract or move on and get out of the way.

Otter

Owns it? I guess you do, I do, every other US pilot does and the company. But, I own a lot of things that I don't use or I replace. I think that is the real question, can the same be done with a seniority list? I don't know, but just like you, will have to wait and see.

I don't have fears, frustrations, but not fears. You guys forget how I feel about our situation sometimes.

 

[OTTER574]

Not sure why you addressed that to me, I've missed nothing. Maybe you can answer as no other west pilot has. Would it have been possible for the west pilots to have delayed the implementation of a joint contract/seniority list under ALPA?

Has parker stated that east usapa reps LIE?...yup

Has kirby stated that there will be no joint contract with usapa as my cba?...yup

usapa has been and will ever be the corrupt union dance that never ends.

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

Has parker stated that east usapa reps LIE?...yup

Has kirby stated that there will be no joint contract with usapa as my cba?...yup

usapa has been and will ever be the corrupt union dance that never ends.

Otter

That is pretty funny.........how many times have you guys said Parker and Kirby lie and can't be trusted? What does that have to do with anything I said?