US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Well PHx is your career expectation is it not, it surely isn't a 330 or 767 job in PHL! Or does it justify your position because those positions shouldn't exist! JAMIE, JJ, JG, MM!

Was flying out of PIT, LGA, BOS your career expectation?

Before wide bodies showed up at Us Air was that a career expectation?

New company career expectations change. Get over it.

 

[Pi brat]

The West's flying has increased?

Another outright lie.

Prior to the merger the West had 1884 pilots, 142 aircraft. We are down to 122 aircraft and 15?? pilots.

Meanwhile, the about to liquidate east has enjoyed the delivery of aircraft that has more than doubled the 330 fleet, added 757s and 15 e190s.

Speaking of windfalls, the east recalls who stole the bottom 300 West jobs have absolutely no room to talk. I understand Coello is a usapa volunteer. I used to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and assume he was a decent guy, now I accuse him of being another piece of usapa scum, having gone from the street to gainfully employed at another pilots expense, and fighting to steal more from the West.

Very shabby indeed.

There you go with that steal thing again. Please give the the exact date that would would have completed the last piece of the merger puzzle, a joint contract, that would have allowed the shrinking west pilot base to soften the blow by taking east positions. Please.

Didn't someone say on here last summer that the F/As joint contract was just around the corner? I guess it was a big corner.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I believe that Jim has lamented the decline of his career

Only in the sense that I don't think it turned out as well as I'm convinced it would have without the PI/US merger, but I was lucky enough to be in one of the seniority bands where the effects of that merger caused relatively little change. Of course I was never been one to chase equipment, pay or 4 stripes around the system, preferring QOL instead.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Only in the sense that I don't think it turned out as well as I'm convinced it would have without the PI/US merger, but I was lucky enough to be in one of the seniority bands where the effects of that merger caused relatively little change. Of course I was never been one to chase equipment, pay or 4 stripes around the system, preferring QOL instead.

Jim

I agree with you there (especially the PI part) and although I got stuck as a F/O for many years, for QOL and watching my children grow up, it worked out OK. Do you remember when you kind of gave me a hard time when I was defending my career to certain west pilots when they were saying what a lousy career US had provided?

 

[Pi brat]

I don't like to lump west or east into the same way of thinking because it aggravates me when it is done to me, but with stealing of the jobs things I think the west is over simplifying things when they say that absent USAPA west pilots would not have been damaged. The Nic award was a game changer, period. Even if USAPA had not been elected achieving a joint contract would have been very hard, because that was the last speed bump to the Nic. The ALPA plan was to delay a joint contract in order to put pressure on the west to give concessions to it. Joint ratification was the veto available to both groups and as bad as the Nic was perceived on the east, it would have been used, for at least a while, and by then oil took off and the company was in no mood to raise their costs.

 

[cleardirect]

Yea, there flying has only increased by over 25% , not to shabby. I'd say that's a windfall.

Wrong on the facts again. We are at min block hours. Nothing was increased.

 

[cleardirect]

Nope, you're WRONG again, oh legal expert. No one precluded participation by the west except the west themselves, WAAAY different than the Alaska-Jet America case, where Jet America was excluded by management AND ALPA, and ALPA admitted to not following their own merger policy.

USAPA IS following their merger policy. Everyone has been invited to the party. If they choose not to come, they can't complain about it.

Just wait, you'll see, oh god of judicial knowledge. If you want to see what they REALLY said in that case, read the link I provided in the earlier post. Or, have your attendant at the "home" read it to you.

Amazing how you can be wrong so often. usapa has a duty to represent the members fairly. It does not matter if the west does or does not participate in the merger committee and the fake C&R. usapa still has to be fair. DOH is not fair. C&R do not make it fair.

No different than if you have all former furloughed guys negotiating a contract. Even though there are no senior captains on the committee they still have to represent them fairly. Could you shift all of the money to the junior pilots and say they had a chance to be on the committee. The majority decided the senior guys did not need the money.

There is no legal defense "well they weren't here so they must had agreed".

So if the Jews had sat on some board and got a say in the method of their extermination it would have been OK. (dramatic effect not comparing the two events)

 

[nic4us]

There you go with that steal thing again. Please give the the exact date that would would have completed the last piece of the merger puzzle, a joint contract, that would have allowed the shrinking west pilot base to soften the blow by taking east positions. Please.

Didn't someone say on here last summer that the F/As joint contract was just around the corner? I guess it was a big corner.

May 19th, 2005.

On that date the West bases were not shrinking but expanding, while the east bases were definitely shrinking. On that date a contract was signed that would facilitate the merger, a transaction that stopped the shrinking east from going away entirely.

As you point out, it is this same contract that requires a ratified CBA in order to use the results of the seniority integration that it mandated.

The reason I feel justified in using the term steal, is because the east is intentionally delaying the implementation of the joint seniority list , while reaping the benefits of the merger that benefit them. Nicolau got it right. The merger favored the east much more than their West counterparts. Now the east is trying to reap the benefits of the merger, while not paying the price for it happening in the first place. usapa wants to have its cake and eat it too. Actually, usapa want to have its cake and steal the West's cake by harming the West with a unilaterally imposed seniority scheme.

Plain and simple theft of jobs.

Then the scab Ray has the audacity or ignorance ( I haven't figured out which yet) to tell the media at the CLT picketing event, that it is the company that is delaying a joint contract. This scab may have tried to steal a CAL pilots job, but he ain't getting mine.

May 19th, 2005. The last date the West will ever trust the reneging, job stealing east pilots.

 

[Pi brat]

May 19th, 2005.

On that date the West bases were not shrinking but expanding, while the east bases were definitely shrinking. On that date a contract was signed that would facilitate the merger, a transaction that stopped the shrinking east from going away entirely.

As you point out, it is this same contract that requires a ratified CBA in order to use the results of the seniority integration that it mandated.

The reason I feel justified in using the term steal, is because the east is intentionally delaying the implementation of the joint seniority list , while reaping the benefits of the merger that benefit them. Nicolau got it right. The merger favored the east much more than their West counterparts. Now the east is trying to reap the benefits of the merger, while not paying the price for it happening in the first place. usapa wants to have its cake and eat it too. Actually, usapa want to have its cake and steal the West's cake by harming the West with a unilaterally imposed seniority scheme.

Plain and simple theft of jobs.

Then the scab Ray has the audacity or ignorance ( I haven't figured out which yet) to tell the media at the CLT picketing event, that it is the company that is delaying a joint contract. This scab may have tried to steal a CAL pilots job, but he ain't getting mine.

May 19th, 2005. The last date the West will ever trust the reneging, job stealing east pilots.

And you guys think you are the smart ones.......

Thanks for the rant, but no where in there did you answer my question. May 19th, 2005 was the date of the merger announcement, not the date a joint contract would have been ratified absent USAPA's election. Care to try again? Absent a joint contract, which is indeed still absent, nobdoy stole nothin', and that Sir, is a FACT! Absent a joint contract, a west pilot displacing an east pilot would be a theft.

Now, it's interesting that you like the date May 19, 2005. I agree with you that on that date everything changed. So, here's some homework for you: What was the total east pilot and captain count on that day?

 

[AWA320]

Nope, you're WRONG again, oh legal expert. No one precluded participation by the west except the west themselves, WAAAY different than the Alaska-Jet America case, where Jet America was excluded by management AND ALPA, and ALPA admitted to not following their own merger policy.

USAPA IS following their merger policy. Everyone has been invited to the party. If they choose not to come, they can't complain about it.

Just wait, you'll see, oh god of judicial knowledge. If you want to see what they REALLY said in that case, read the link I provided in the earlier post. Or, have your attendant at the "home" read it to you.

On one side we have a stick of butter and on the other there is you, both equally clueless but one is really worth something while the other is not. Guess which one is worthless?

AWA320

 

[Pi brat]

On one side we have a stick of butter and on the other there is you, both equally clueless but one is really worth something while the other is not. Guess which one is worthless?

AWA320

Do you know how stupid this whole "butter" line makes you look?

 

[Freighterguynow]

The reason I feel justified in using the term steal, is because the east is intentionally delaying the implementation of the joint seniority list ,

AOL disagrees


The good news ... is that we can look forward to the status quo situation for a long time, and for the West that is far more preferable than DOH

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Do you know how stupid this whole "butter" line makes you look?

He's only saying it because I'm "on a roll"! Plus, He's clueless.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Plus, He's clueless.

I would hope that PI would say that such a comment only makes you look stupid. What have you to say, PI? Do you have a double standard or equal scorn for name calling?

Jim

 

[nevergiveup]

May 19th, 2005.

On that date the West bases were not shrinking but expanding, while the east bases were definitely shrinking. On that date a contract was signed that would facilitate the merger, a transaction that stopped the shrinking east from going away entirely.

As you point out, it is this same contract that requires a ratified CBA in order to use the results of the seniority integration that it mandated.

The reason I feel justified in using the term steal, is because the east is intentionally delaying the implementation of the joint seniority list , while reaping the benefits of the merger that benefit them. Nicolau got it right. The merger favored the east much more than their West counterparts. Now the east is trying to reap the benefits of the merger, while not paying the price for it happening in the first place. usapa wants to have its cake and eat it too. Actually, usapa want to have its cake and steal the West's cake by harming the West with a unilaterally imposed seniority scheme.

Plain and simple theft of jobs.

Then the scab Ray has the audacity or ignorance ( I haven't figured out which yet) to tell the media at the CLT picketing event, that it is the company that is delaying a joint contract. This scab may have tried to steal a CAL pilots job, but he ain't getting mine.

May 19th, 2005. The last date the West will ever trust the reneging, job stealing east pilots.

You do realize that 3 1/5 half year upgrades along with expantion has a limit. Unless of course your careers only last for 7 years. It's a math thing.