US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Doug won't be ordering any new a/c , because he can't afford it and doesn't intend to be around that long! Route authority and slots, that's the real value, take a good look at the comments at the end on this article, made me laugh http://www.marketwatch.com/story/united-continental-eyes-new-jets-analysts-2011-01-14 Especially the comments at the end!

 

[nevergiveup]

sumadarson..how many east pilots have made captain that where hired in the last 3-5 years?

Most pilots hired at AWA expected and received an upgrade within 3-5 years with myself included.

Otter

It was a five year expectation for myself as well. I guess we have both learned the definition of career expectations. In this business, there are none.

 

[Code Name V]

I'm glad I'm not from whever you are. Where I come from we call those who make up lies about someone liars. So prove your statement isn't a lie, but keep your dunce cap on till you do that.

Jim

ps - the East pilots that changed unions did that after I retired. Funny how there wasn't a serious attempt to do so until the Nic came out. So I wouldn't be so righteous about changing unions if I were you since none of you did anything of substance about changing unions till you didn't get your way.

Actually there was a serious attempt to eliminate ALPA many years before the Nic came out; at a time when you were still on the property. It failed but for awhile it got some attention. Even though ALPA sucked then as well; it required a little more push to finally get rid of them. The Nic was the last straw and ALPA is no longer....

V

 

[No Land Green]

Actually there was a serious attempt to eliminate ALPA many years before the Nic came out; at a time when you were still on the property. It failed but for awhile it got some attention. Even though ALPA sucked then as well; it required a little more push to finally get rid of them. The Nic was the last straw and ALPA is no longer....

V

The comedy never ends here. You got it right V. It makes you wonder, after continual ALPA National ENDORSED contractual concessions over the last two decades, we are just supposed to sit back and continue to allow it to continue, NOT!!!!!!! Even AWA tried to oust ALPA at least once in the last decade...........Nic was NOT an isolated event, just the final straw.......

 

[cleardirect]

No, I meant the conditions and restrictions will protect what you brought. PHX is yours.

Did the transition agreement protect PIT, BOS, LGA? You brought those bases, still have them?

How does your little C&R protect PHX?

Things change. In the next merger will you agree that you can only bid CLT, PHL and DCA?

 

[Barrister]

Exactly. Self-interest will rule the day. Always has, always will. What's very interesting about this situation is that the East overall just can't get a grip on things. They're spellboud, and can't take a step back and see that their self interest would be best served by just cutting their losses. It's like someone who was so confident in say a stock, and that stock turned out to be a bad investment but they can't bring themselves to just sell and cut their losses.

The East will ride this for another couple of years, and they'll still wind up with the Nic. It's like they bought JDSU at a thousand bucks a share and they'll ride it all the way down.

I still pity them.

That is where you are wrong. You will never be able to justify putting a 17 year guy below a new hire. Especially when
the 17 year guy works for a company who will be retiring 200 plus a year in 2 years. And spin it anyway you want to
they will ALL be senior to the guy who was a new hire at AW. He would have moved up just fine by not leaping ahead of the 17 year guy.
Why NIC thought that would fly is amazing to me. He was pissed that our guys would not do the dirty work for him. The most anyone
lost at other companys was 3-5 years. NOT 17. That is your burden.......justify placing that 17 year dues paying pilot
below a new hire.......Go ahead try it......you can't, never will....and it is one of the most shameful things ever done to a pilot at any carrier.
Just admit that your jaw dropped when that list came out........go ahead admit it. We all know we were close to being out of a job but
until you show me a pay stub where you financed the deal it doensn't matter one bit. We know where the value of this business is and it
ain't the West. You think Parker will risk his BIG PAYDAY to take up your NIC cause. If so, you ain't been paying attention. He wants delay
and cover. When he sees the BIG PAYDAY on the horizon you will become merger road kill. But if you keep jogging, eat right, and put in say..
...another 10-20 years here...you too will finally "get it" ........MAYBE.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

Is the NMB going to wait 3 years?

Yes. The NMB does not care how long it takes. Besides when usapa gets themselves parked for a year or two that 3 years goes by pretty quick.

Enjoy LOA 93.

 

[Barrister]

sumadarson..how many east pilots have made captain that where hired in the last 3-5 years?

Most pilots hired at AWA expected and received an upgrade within 3-5 years with myself included.

Otter

It doesn't matter and we don't care!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Barrister]

Poor Nos...doesn't even understand the value of the 9th's ruling to the West...

Tick tock tick tock...where's the proof? Nos? RR? 9? Anyone? Still waiting on that proof...

Yea, oh wise one.......and whatever USAPA presnts to the company has to
past the test of a "wide range of reasonableness" I'm sure you are aware that
it is "just their opinion" the Supremes that is. And is putting that 17 year guy below a new hire gonna
fly.......and it is also quite possible that when you consider the legal process and how courts look at the issues,
that the NIC might not even come up, ever though of that one????? Would that not be
the bomb.....if the NIC wasn't even allowed in seeing as how there would be a new standard.
This is some scary stuff man!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Did the transition agreement protect PIT, BOS, LGA? You brought those bases, still have them?

How does your little C&R protect PHX?

Things change. In the next merger will you agree that you can only bid CLT, PHL and DCA?

Well PHx is your career expectation is it not, it surely isn't a 330 or 767 job in PHL! Or does it justify your position because those positions shouldn't exist! JAMIE, JJ, JG, MM!

 

[doh nogo]

...their screw job happened at a different airline half my lifetime ago.

RR

My sentiment exactly, with regard to the screw job the east endured at the hands of poor management, union reps run amok, and multiple bankruptcy courts.

Stop trying to fix your woes on my back.

 

[BoeingBoy]

This is some scary stuff man!!

I can certainly understand why you're scared...I'd be scared if I read the 9th's ruling they way you do - missing everything but a snippet here and there. Just look at the qualifier the 9th put on that "doesn't have to contain the Nic" that you and most every other USAPA supporter take to mean USAPA can do pretty much what it wants. Or what the 9th said USAPA had to do if it didn't want the "pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR". While the 9th didn't rule on the merits of DFR 1, they definitely gave USAPA some strong hints of what it needed to do in order to not lose DFR 2.

Since seniority (not longevity) integration is a zero sum game, moving East pilots up the combined seniority (not longevity) list means moving West pilots down that list - taking seniority (not longevity) from the West and giving it to the East. Remember, there have been pilot integrations using relative position on equipment/seat as well as DOH - neither is an ironclad DFR blocker. If USAPA ignores the Nic and uses DOH with minor C&R's it absolutely doesn't mean that USAPA is off the hook.

Jim

 

[doh nogo]

You are the company you keep.
Quintessential definition of a hypocrite.

Yup. Making you all scabs since you have one on your BPR.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Please elaborate oldie....

http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F2/873/213/432339/

Otter

OK, I will. This case has little or nothing to do with the situation at LCC. USAPA IS representing BOTH pilot groups, as reflected by the addition of C&Rs, and DOH has been shown to be a fair method of seniority integration. The west was offered positions on the merger committee to build the C&Rs and flat out refused to participate. USAPA won't be held responsible for the childish behavior of the west side.

Here, this link explains it very well, especially pg 51, at the top:
Airline labor law: the Railway Labor Act and aviation after deregulation By William E. Thoms, Frank J. Dooley

 

[doh nogo]

Maybe you should spend some quiet time away from the board.

I guess the truth hurts, huh? Talk about a hypocrite!