US Pilots Labor Discussion

[OTTER574]

This is why we absolutely going to prevail. The fact you think this is a FEDERAL issue is unbelievable! This is an INTERNAL UNION DISPUTE. Nothing FEDERAL at all. And it was NEVER a FEDERAL arbitration, concerning Federal Law. Lets' get a contract. After Kasher delivers his award that AWA 320 said was forthwith. By the way, where is the award? He said it was coming a few weeks ago. Either way, lets' agree on a pay rate for the 73 and little bus for 225k, and the 330 for 300k. Those are the numbers hard in my world. I promise you a no vote on anything less than those numbers. And then I want to hear you make a case for a jury how you were harmed.

So now ALL arbitration's are null and void because of a certain group of malcontent's and the ill informed east pilots don't like the outcome?

My wife has worked for the Federal Government...Guess what she did for her side job? A Federal Facilitator, which == Negotiate..Mediate..Arbitrate DISPUTES which where FINAL AND BINDING on all PARTIES that entered into the Arbitration!

These are and where recognized by Federal Courts of LAW for centuries!

Otter

 

[nic4us]

The DFR I II III ad finitum threats are really funny. So far, Marty Harper has taken millions from you guys with the urging of Koontz and the other legal eagles on your list. Think about it. Wake and his Circus. POOF! Addington to 9th. Massive clock cleaning. Ninth comes out and destroys the Nic Theory. West continues to misinterpret it to this day. Leonidas pays for the 9th to blow them out of the water. Then the entire smelly pile of manure lurches off to the Supreme Court. Poof! Again. Then you have the toothless threat of dfr2! Unbelievable. dfr 2 will meet the same fate of EVERY Leonidas filing. POOF!

The West misinterprets the 9th? Kind of hard to misinterpret "not ripe dismissed". The West has a pretty good read on that.

Perhaps you mean the company has misinterpreted the 9ths ruling, they surley do not see what usapa does in the opinion. Corporate legal telegraphed their take on it in their letter to the pilots explaining that the 9th indeed left wide open the possibility of future lawsuits for a union bent on trying to renege on binding arbitration. Even hinting that usapa would lose such a lawsuit, and they were not going to risk being a party the reneging usapa club.

Regardless of who is misinterpreting the 9ths ruling, the facts remain. usapa is incapable of getting a ratified contract, so no DFRII.

Someone forgot to tell the little lawyer his plan was defective from the begining for numerous reasons. One, a cost neutral contract in exchange for labor peace from 2/3rds of the group does nothing except guarantee labor unrest from the other 1/3rd. (a situation the company cannot have) Two, it is a slam dunk DFR. Everyone sees that except usapa, ( by everyone I mean the West, the company, the district court and jury, the circuit court). Three, the company is more than happy to deny the "cost nuetral" contract, and keep their costs neutral with the status quo contracts. That way they don't get sued by the West pilots and lose large sums. What does usapa have as leverage? The possibility that sometime in the distant future the NMB might release them because they have caused the impasse to their own negotiations? Yeah right!! Plus that went away when the 9th ruled and usapa thought it could now go from "cost neutral" to "industry standard". The company is quite content telling usapa to pound sand and hold us all in status quo.

One last thing. There is a very good chance Judge Silver will drop some of her case load. You will be eating the "Wake and his circus" or biased desert judge comments, if the company's DJ finds its way back into his courtroom. Although, whichever judge hears the case, Wake has already put on the record the scumbag tactics of the little lawyer and his usapian faithful.

 

[N924PS]

Hey 924PS.
I'm a younger east.. been here since 89 and I really don't care if it survives or not.. Learned a long time ago not to put my eggs in one basket.. On the low time option and the pay if it goes away doesn't have me concerned... I'm glad your such a company and ALPA guy but take your nonsense elswhere, or jump on board and row in the same direction.

If rowing in the same direction means supporting a DOH cramdown for the West pilots, well, I'll just stay on the dock.

 

[N924PS]

The DFR I II III ad finitum threats are really funny. So far, Marty Harper has taken millions from you guys with the urging of Koontz and the other legal eagles on your list. Think about it. Wake and his Circus. POOF! Addington to 9th. Massive clock cleaning. Ninth comes out and destroys the Nic Theory. West continues to misinterpret it to this day. Leonidas pays for the 9th to blow them out of the water. Then the entire smelly pile of manure lurches off to the Supreme Court. Poof! Again. Then you have the toothless threat of dfr2! Unbelievable. dfr 2 will meet the same fate of EVERY Leonidas filing. POOF!

It amazes me that you consider the 9th's decision a victory. More like a stay of execution until USAPA tries to shove DOH on the West.

How long did it take the Addington jury to find USAPA guilty of DFR?

And next time Bradford and maybe Spyrka will be on the stand:

Question: What was your reason for creating a new union to replace ALPA at USAirways?

Answer: We felt that the result of the binding arbitration, mutually agreed to by the pilots of USAirways and America West Airlines, was flawed and a windfall for the West. Throwing ALPA off the property was our only chance to negate those results.

 

[OTTER574]

Hey 924PS.
I'm a younger east.. been here since 89 and I really don't care if it survives or not.. Learned a long time ago not to put my eggs in one basket.. On the low time option and the pay if it goes away doesn't have me concerned... I'm glad your such a company and ALPA guy but take your nonsense elswhere, or jump on board and row in the same direction.

You know, maybe we could row in the same direction.....as long as the east controlled usapa stops it's dfr against the west pilots. Accepts the final and binding arbitration called the NIC, that btw is in MY CONTRACT called the TA!

Otter

 

[No Land Green]

Answer: We felt that the result of the binding arbitration, mutually agreed to by the pilots of USAirways and America West Airlines, was flawed and a windfall for the West. Throwing ALPA off the property was our only chance to negate those results.

The entire contract, Section 1 through the last is open to change, no matter who the CBA is. Nothing is written in stone in Contracts. Two things in life don't change, the day you are born and the day you die, those two items can't be changed in a contract, wink.

Regardless, if one doesn't believe they are being represented by their CBA, they have the right to change CBA's. That is what happened here, it just so happened that the Nic Award was the straw that broke the camel's back. ALPA should have been thrown off the property the day the DB Retirement Plan was given away, which they endorsed as they do all CBA's with their name on it. There are many more reasons why ALPA is no longer on the property, not solely because of the Nic Award.

Start a card drive if so many of you are unhappy.

 

[No Land Green]

Accepts the final and binding arbitration called the NIC, that btw is in MY CONTRACT called the TA!

Otter

The "TA" above you refer to, is that the still industry "Bottom of the Barrel" Kirby Proposal?

 

[N924PS]

What do you have on your list this time to give away to keep your great job this time when they come calling again???

There is nothing on my list. It was all given away with LOA 93.

If we ever get a new contract, I expect to have wages and work rules siimilar to my peers at other major airlines. Just like Doug.

What are you willing to give away to ensure a DOH Section 22?

 

[aquagreen73s]

The DFR I II III ad finitum threats are really funny. So far, Marty Harper has taken millions from you guys with the urging of Koontz and the other legal eagles on your list. Think about it. Wake and his Circus. POOF! Addington to 9th. Massive clock cleaning. Ninth comes out and destroys the Nic Theory. West continues to misinterpret it to this day. Leonidas pays for the 9th to blow them out of the water. Then the entire smelly pile of manure lurches off to the Supreme Court. Poof! Again. Then you have the toothless threat of dfr2! Unbelievable. dfr 2 will meet the same fate of EVERY Leonidas filing. POOF!

Massive clock cleaning? It wasn't ripe which means we get to maul USAPA again and this time there won't be the clock to save you. However, of late I'm wondering if we'll ever get to DFR II. Lately, a lot of West pilots are getting some honest admissions from East pilots on hotel vans, in the CLT or PHL food court and on jumpseats, that they realize they've been lied to. Just like the East captain on last week's crew news. Poor fella. That'll teach him to trust Cleary or USAPA. It seems that enough of your colleagues are waking up. You Angry F/Os promised DOH and a quick contract, and now a joint contract is farther than it's ever been. In short, the West has delivered.

http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Seham_costneutral.mov

How's that cramdown strategy working out?

 

[OTTER574]

The "TA" above you refer to, is that the still industry "Bottom of the Barrel" Kirby Proposal?

Who formed and voted in usapa? === East Pilots. Of which they MUST enforce my contract to the LETTER or else they'll get sued under the Federal LAW standard of DFR.

Proven once and will be quite easy if usapa continues down it's corrupt path.

Otter

 

[aquagreen73s]

There is nothing on my list. It was all given away with LOA 93.

If we ever get a new contract, I expect to have wages and work rules siimilar to my peers at other major airlines. Just like Doug.

What are you willing to give away to ensure a DOH Section 22?

Apparently, everything: http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/Seham_costneutral.mov

 

[No Land Green]

Who formed and voted in usapa? === East Pilots. Of which they MUST enforce my contract to the LETTER or else they'll get sued under the Federal LAW standard of DFR.

Proven once and will be quite easy if usapa continues down it's corrupt path.

Otter

Thanks, you answered my question, it is the Kirby Proposal, still industry Bottom of the Barrel

 

[aquagreen73s]

Thanks, you answered my question, it is the Kirby Proposal, still industry Bottom of the Barrel

Kirby represented an improvement of $122 million, so why were you and your fellow Angry F/Os gunning for a "cost neutral" contract in exchange for DOH? Why were you trying to undershoot even the Kirby? Were you that unsure about your legal strategy?

 

[No Land Green]

If we ever get a new contract.

American Pilot's four years in to negotiating a new contract with no end in sight. At least with ALPA still on the property we would have another ALPA National ENDORSED POS Contract for 5 more years.............

 

[Reed Richards]

One last thing. There is a very good chance Judge Silver will drop some of her case load. You will be eating the "Wake and his circus" or biased desert judge comments, if the company's DJ finds its way back into his courtroom. Although, whichever judge hears the case, Wake has already put on the record the scumbag tactics of the little lawyer and his usapian faithful.

Indeed Judge Silver may find her docket overloaded due to her new and tragically acquired status.

So where does the road fork? Was her work on the case complete, awaiting a polite duration of time to issue her findings after a SCOTUS turndown? Or as you ponder...perhaps the bouncing ball lands back in the Honorable Judge Wake's courtroom?..if that can even happen.

You may not believe me, but I choose the second option. Compare and contrast, and have your essays ready tomorrow. This is for extra credit.

RR