US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Just so everybody is on the same page, below is a legal description of what a Declaratory Judgment is;

"Individuals may seek a declaratory judgment after a legal controversy has arisen but before any damages have occurred or any laws have been violated. A declaratory judgment differs from other judicial rulings in that it does not require that any action be taken. Instead, the judge, after analyzing the controversy, simply issues an opinion declaring the rights of each of the parties involved. A declaratory judgment may only be granted in justiciable controversies—that is, in actual, rather than hypothetical, controversies that fall within a court's jurisdiction. Ripeness is a major consideration when parties seek injunctive or declarative relief before a statute or regulation has been applied. Courts are reluctant to enter an abstract disagreement over administrative policies.
A declaratory judgment, sometimes called declaratory relief, is conclusive and legally binding as to the present and future rights of the parties involved. The parties involved in a declaratory judgment may not later seek another court resolution of the same legal issue unless they appeal the judgment.
Declaratory judgments are often sought in situations involving contracts, deeds, leases, and wills. An insurance company, for example, might seek a declaratory judgment as to whether a policy applies to a certain person or event. Declaratory judgments also commonly involve individuals or parties who seek to determine their rights under specific regulatory or criminal laws.
Declaratory judgments are considered a type of preventive justice because, by informing parties of their rights, they help them to avoid violating specific laws or the terms of a contract. In 1934 Congress enacted the Declaratory Judgment Act (28 U.S.C.A. § 2201 et seq.), which allows for declaratory judgments concerning issues of federal law. At the state level, the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws passed the Uniform Declaratory Judgments Act (12 U.L.A. 109) in 1922. Between 1922 and 1993, this act was adopted in forty-one states, the Virgin Islands, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. Most other states have varying laws that provide for declaratory judgments. Most declaratory judgment laws grant judges discretion to decide whether or not to issue a declaratory judgment."

Until Judge Silver decides how to rule (or not) on the company's DJ request, all the speculation regarding the impact (if any) of the outcome of this matter is pure inter-mural speculation.

In the mean time and if nothing else, the company is succeeding in delaying the process further. Furthermore, a DJ can also be appealed, still more delay!

seajay
 
"Just give us a damn list"
Quote from Doug Parker - Crew News Oct 2010
What does that tell you about what Parker thinks of usapa? Cleary was whining in his video that he already gave Parker a list. Guess Parker thought so little of it that he does not even consider it.
 
Thats easy enough.....APPEAL. Doug has already said that. More delay tactics.
Doug already knows the courts will not give immunity, he is just not telling us this. Courts deal with facts, not speculation. There would be too much speculation to presume to know what Usapa would present or what the company would accept that may or may not bring harm to the west.
We do know one thing. usapa will present a DOH list. The C&R are irrelevant. A DOH list does harm to the west. So anything that usapa does will be a DFR. It really is a a very simple matter.
 
I don’t know what did IAM mechanics and related do?


Did that happen?
Guess you dont know what happened do you?

When we reached the end of the 30 day cooling off period in October of 92, we went on strike, and they kept negotiating, US didnt impose terms.

Try again.

At NW this has happened.
 
In the mean time and if nothing else, the company is succeeding in delaying the process further. Furthermore, a DJ can also be appealed, still more delay!

seajay
The delay is the result of USAPA’s actions, not Management’s. There would be no delay, no dispute, no DJ, no DFR I or the prospect of DFR II if USAPA wasn’t attempting to violate the terms of the TA by presenting a list that Management cannot accept. For those who truly want a JCBA, though I doubt there are many on the east that do, it should be easy to recognize that $eham didn’t do anyone, except his own pocketbook, a favor by appealing to the 9th on the grounds of ripeness. If USAPA and $eham wanted a JCBA in-place in 2009 or 2010, then he would have let the appeal be on the merits of the DFR rather than on ripeness. Then it would have been exceedingly clear who had the proper interpretation of contract & arbitration law vs. the RLA regarding a wide range of reasonableness.

Tashima and Graber didn’t do anyone any favors either. Their unwillingness to look at the facts (or ignorance of the same) as they related to the existence of the TA which moved the dispute outside of an internal union issue resulted in a bad decision and one that did nothing to bring a resolution to the dispute. The fact that the SCOTUS didn’t take the case says nothing concerning what their ruling would have been had they actually taken the case. Nevertheless, anyone who truly wants a JCBA would have wanted the 9th to objectively look at the merits of USAPA proposing anything other than the NIC for section 22 of the contract. Seeking relief on ripeness grounds may have resulted in a USAPA win, hollow though it may be, it only served to prolong the delay to getting a JCBA.

It is so plain and obvious that USAPA and therefore $eham DO NOT WANT A JCBA because they are informed enough to know that a JCBA will either come with the NIC, or it will come with a DFRII which will almost certainly result in the NIC being put back in place in the ratified contract, no matter what that section 22 contains. $eham is only acting in his own best interests and could not care less if the pilots ever get a new JCBA because that will not put more money in his pocket. So while USAPA and $eham have no moral objection to violating the terms of the TA and causing all US pilots to lose any pay increase that would come from a JCBA, they can’t get around the fact that Management will not join them in their violation of the covenants made in the TA. All the blame for the delay lies directly at the morally bankrupt feet of USAPA and $eham.

Accept the NIC as-is for section 22 and there will be no more delay, only good faith negotiations going forward. Propose DOH and get an endless delay until the USAPA house of cards falls down.
 
Until Judge Silver decides how to rule (or not) on the company's DJ request, all the speculation regarding the impact (if any) of the outcome of this matter is pure inter-mural speculation.

In the mean time and if nothing else, the company is succeeding in delaying the process further. Furthermore, a DJ can also be appealed, still more delay!

seajay
What has usapa done to stop the company delay??? Not a darn thing. No ability, no desire. Companies always want to delay. It is the union's job to move the copany and get a contract. usapa is failing in their primary job. the secondary job of a union is to protect the contract in place. 400 outstanding grievances does not sound like usapa is protecting the contract either. So what is usapa doing as a union?

usapa has no leverage, no unity, no ability. Even when section 22 is decided usapa will still be unable to get a contract. The company is delaying because they can and that is what they do. usapa can't stop it because they can't.
 
Accept the NIC as-is for section 22 and there will be no more delay, only good faith negotiations going forward. Propose DOH and get an endless delay until the USAPA house of cards falls down.


Uh...NO.

File all you want, stomp all you want, complain all you want, it will STILL be NO. I don't care if it's USAPA or ALPA or WHOEVER, as long as Nic is in a contract then I will vote NO NO NO. Don't you get it????

NOOOOOO
 
Hey callygolf, you forgot to blame the whole 9th circuit, and scotus, for your dilema, oh and tell the AFA, so they don't feel bad they don't have a contract, maybe they can join you and blame USAPA too! MM!
 
Hey callygolf, you forgot to blame the whole 9th circuit, and scotus, for your dilema, oh and tell the AFA, so they don't feel bad they don't have a contract, maybe they can join you and blame USAPA too! MM!
I don't blame anyone but USAPA and the pilots that support them because that is the root cause of this issue. The en banc hearing of the 9th and the SCOTUS appeal only had the slimmest of chances of a favorable outcome because this is a highly complicated issue and en banc and SCOTUS reviews likely didn't even scratch the surface for the justices to actually consider how Tashima and Graber got it wrong. These are busy and overburdened people and I can’t fault them for not spending endless hours trying to understand why this matter was different than a typical DFR case.

I will long hold that Tashima and Graber got it wrong because of laziness or liberal favoritism, but I won't charge them with further delaying the JCBA. Even if they had ruled the matter was ripe and affirmed all of the rulings of Judge Wake, there still wouldn't be a JCBA in place. USAPA and $eham would have found another cause for delaying the NIC/JCBA. They don't want one, never did, never will. A JCBA will have to be forced upon them unless mandatory retirement changes the imbalance of power held over USAPA by the current lot of narcissists and malcontents in the east.
 
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