US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AWA320]

The RLA dictates that contracts do not expire but become amendable and requires a process of attempting direct negotiation, mediation, followed by a proffer of arbitration, a 30 day cooling off period and release to self-help should the parties be unable to reconcile. There is always a PEB established by Presidential order to delay the self-help period further. One step has to occur before the next and unfortunately the mediator has complete administrative control under the auspices and direction of the NMB. As you can see by the numerous examples I posted, they have used this administrative control to create a pattern of protracted negotiations. American has 5 unions that are all over 3 years in negotiations and 2+ in mediation, one of which has voted on and rejected a contract and as the mediator assigned in each case as well as the others listed has yet to make the proffer of arbitration in any case. This almost always benefits the corporation but that is the process and all the examples of recent where the mediator has held the parties in negotiation in an attempt to reach a deal had nothing to with the seniority of the name of the union. It is the government bureaucracy dictated policy du jour to go to unrealistic lengths to reconcile the parties involved, like it or hate it.

Your legal knowledge wasn't worth what you spent on it, and its even more frightening that you don't know the RLA section 6 process by which contracts are negotiated or the current status of other airline labor negotiations if you were a union rep as has been alleged.

Read your very first line again now ask yourself what was the LOA93 arbitration for/about??

Apples to oranges as is always the case with you east folks. The RLA is the platform not the negotiating tool!!

Here maybe this will help you to understand
http://www.nmb.gov/documents/rla.html

AWA320

 

[mikey60]

Six you're new to the forum with your all but 2 posts so I m going to cut you a little slack. Starting off with your insults is very telling of your fear of west invasion. Fear not my child as we will sweep thru the east like a spring storm and it will happen so fast you wont even feel it

BTW yes i am having fun at you and your brethren's expense. Rattling your cages gives me a sense of pleasure
AWA320

But your problem awa is you rattling from the inside and until you see things the East way you wont get out. But... we'll give you your ration of Ripple at dusk so you can sleep. By the way does that double wide have wheels, Grande Mesa might be calling....remember keep saying " I love USAPA, I love USAPA" now go to sleep and maybe tomorrow we'll let you out of the cage .

 

[AWA320]

Hey wawa320,got your but kicked didnt ya...how much do you have invested in that loss 20-30grand, you could buy a lot of boxed wine for that. I bet the mrs. had a few after that was announced today. I bet we wont see any Napa wine flowing in the double wide tonight. In case you have a little trouble making ends meet I think Barnum & Bailey is hiring clowns this week and you sure fit in. Start saying " I LIKE USAPA" you will get used to it.

Lost on what?? You lost the arguement too as you dont have a valid point so you too have to resort to insults. Look face the facts already you and usapa have no valid arguement and you have lost on every front. So lets do this as I am growing tired of this fighting with losers. Lets see what the DJ brings and one of us going to be right. I am going to watch the football game, you guys are lost beyond belief which is why you have to worst contract in all of aviation. BTW hows that LOA93 treating you today.

AWA320

 

[oldiebutgoody]

See this is what happens when you have no winning arguement, you have to resort to personal insults. Its clear that you have lost now all you need to do now is accept it.

See no personal attacks and no insults on my part. I know I have won the arguement.

AWA320

No "arguement" here. I don't have to argue, since I'm right. You may have won some kind of argument with yourself, but you lost the Spelling Bee.

 

[AWA320]

But your problem wawa is you rattling from the inside and until you see things the East way you wont get out. But... we'll give you your ration of Ripple at dusk so you can sleep. By the way does that double wide have wheels, Grande Mesa might be calling....remember keep saying " I love USAPA, I love USAPA" now go to sleep and maybe tomorrow we'll let you out of the cage .

Where is DOH???? rest my case on that one!!
Where is the Snapbacks?? Rest my case on that one

Tell me how does it really feel to have an RJ captain making more than east captains?? That one has to really sting a bit huh. I make more than your TOP fo's to fly the same equip. I know that one hurts but as you say tomorrow will be better for you. Keep up with your insults because we both know that's all you got.

Football time ladies Cya

AWA320

 

[nic4us]

Although it was anticipated and expected, I really have to wonder why the SC denied the writ.

Could it be because they see that there is still litigation and the chance for resolution in a lower court? Possibly.

Perhaps, the question of ripeness in a single, very narrow circumstance, was not enough to merit their attention, while more pressing issues fill their limited time.

My guess though is they did not want to fulfill the boyhood dream of a union busting scumbag lawyer, and allow him to disgrace their presence with his idiotic arguements and out of context quotes.

Good for them.


My other thoughts turn to usapa's update. You losers still have no clue of the situation you are in. The last 10-15 pages of post are all the evidence I need. There is no contract coming. There will be no release to self-help. The West is not interested in helping you get DOH so that we can then sue you. If another merger happens, it will happen with the Nic. If a fragmentation comes the bottom half of the east will be on the street faster than the bottom half of the West.

So, we are where we were the day the Nic was published. Seperate ops until a joint Nic inclusive contract is ratified. usapa or Seeham try to tell you differently, they are either intentionally lying to you or they are genuinely stupid.

 

[Mtnman928]

Although it was anticipated and expected, I really have to wonder why the SC denied the writ.

Could it be because they see that there is still litigation and the chance for resolution in a lower court? Possibly.

Perhaps, the question of ripeness in a single, very narrow circumstance, was not enough to merit their attention, while more pressing issues fill their limited time.

My guess though is they did not want to fulfill the boyhood dream of a union busting scumbag lawyer, and allow him to disgrace their presence with his idiotic arguements and out of context quotes.

Good for them.


My other thoughts turn to usapa's update. You losers still have no clue of the situation you are in. The last 10-15 pages of post are all the evidence I need. There is no contract coming. There will be no release to self-help. The West is not interested in helping you get DOH so that we can then sue you. If another merger happens, it will happen with the Nic. If a fragmentation comes the bottom half of the east will be on the street faster than the bottom half of the West.

So, we are where we were the day the Nic was published. Seperate ops until a joint Nic inclusive contract is ratified. usapa or Seeham try to tell you differently, they are either intentionally lying to you or they are genuinely stupid.

WOW!

The Grapes are exceptionally sour out in Westword today.

M

 

[AWA320]

No "arguement" here. I don't have to argue, since I'm right. You may have won some kind of argument with yourself, but you lost the Spelling Bee.

Baseless and pointless! Now lets talk in the real shall we. How your contract working for you? you know LOA93 the industries worst? Where o where can that DOH be OH where oh where can it be?? its in the same place your pay and benfits are, the cellar!!

No personal attacks here oldie just facts and the fact still remains, you have no valid arguement and the ones your legal team do present are weak at best.

Tomorrow we will look at and break down just why usapa is worse than scabs. Tune in for that discussion.

AWA320

 

[trevrep]

Hey wawa320,got your but kicked didnt ya...how much do you have invested in that loss 20-30grand, you could buy a lot of boxed wine for that. I bet the mrs. had a few after that was announced today. I bet we wont see any Napa wine flowing in the double wide tonight. In case you have a little trouble making ends meet I think Barnum & Bailey is hiring clowns this week and you sure fit in. Start saying " I LIKE USAPA" you will get used to it.

Did I miss something here?

Oh pull...ease.........do you think that was a "win" today for the East? USAPA? I'm sure you're popping the cork but really, it's absolutely nothing to celebrate. No one expected the SC to solve this...it was only a long shot attempt. Didn't work. But no big win for anyone....please explain if I missed something.

All we have here is the useless piece called usapa that got their butt kicked in court with tons of evidence and will again with dfr II.......IF they ever stumble across a contract.

 

[trevrep]

I'll ask you the same question... if the NIC is it... why is it not in place???... why is the company seeking cover in the DJ filing if its a done deal!?????????

Please allow me to answer:

why is the NIC not in place.....uh, usapa = angry f/o's
why is the company seeking cover for the DJ filing? uh, delay, keep up the infighting...keep us at commuter wages and benefits.

any other brilliant questions?

 

[trevrep]

Did you give my message to gillen and rice? Nice try incompetents and lame ducks.

The LOA 93 will be decided in the companies favor. The frivolous declaratory judgment will be dismissed very soon by the Judge, due to it being an internal union matter. The company will appeal but the dismissal will be affirmed. It all comes back to SCOTUS and the 9th circuit court rulings. This paves the way for a clean slate for a transaction involving the assets and turf of Usairways.

The management of this company have their personal change of control protection for a carrot on a stick to guide them. It all comes down to the money, although they will tout "for the good of the employees and flying public" bs to explain their actions. Look for things to happen fast, corporate transaction is inevitable. The East side will be in the hands of American Airlines or Virgin Air or similar, the west will be dealt to Mesa after they leave bk, or Frontier Airlines or similar. The selling point for the American or other employees is that the East side will be run separately for years and most workers will not be integrated. The west side will be integrated with Mesa or Frontier.

DFR 2? Suing a union that will no longer exist after the above transactions take place, is not possible.

I think you started off pretty good.....till you got to the split part.

But I'll bite...you think American would give you DOH or staple?

I for one would rather merge with Mesa that stay with US Airways, so no loss there.

 

[LSS]

I
I for one would rather merge with Mesa that stay with US Airways, so no loss there.

Hope you get your wish!

 

[LSS]

any other brilliant questions?

No more brilliant than AWA's I'd say...

But seriously... you guys have been beating the same drum to death for years... if the NIC is the list and the company has "accepted" it... what's the big deal with you guys? You say it's the NIC... so why do you keep arguing??

And by the way... there are no "angry FOs"... but there are a majority of East pilots that will never accept the NIC abomination... including those who are not dramatically affected...!

Also... for many of us old, ancient Easties... LOA 93 isn't that bad at all particularly when coupled with our PBGC payments... which by the way, pays more than your contract provides, (this is particularly directed at those of you who like to rub our noses in LOA 93 touting how much more you make...)

For me personally, I'll fight for a better seniority integration result until the courts rule, we're split up or Hell freezes over!

 

[Barrister]

Although it was anticipated and expected, I really have to wonder why the SC denied the writ.

Could it be because they see that there is still litigation and the chance for resolution in a lower court? Possibly.

Perhaps, the question of ripeness in a single, very narrow circumstance, was not enough to merit their attention, while more pressing issues fill their limited time.

My guess though is they did not want to fulfill the boyhood dream of a union busting scumbag lawyer, and allow him to disgrace their presence with his idiotic arguements and out of context quotes.

Good for them.


My other thoughts turn to usapa's update. You losers still have no clue of the situation you are in. The last 10-15 pages of post are all the evidence I need. There is no contract coming. There will be no release to self-help. The West is not interested in helping you get DOH so that we can then sue you. If another merger happens, it will happen with the Nic. If a fragmentation comes the bottom half of the east will be on the street faster than the bottom half of the West.

So, we are where we were the day the Nic was published. Seperate ops until a joint Nic inclusive contract is ratified. usapa or Seeham try to tell you differently, they are either intentionally lying to you or they are genuinely stupid.

Oh I dunno ..may be because ripeness is a doctrine about a 100 years old I guess. Has anone mentioned
internal union dispute here.....Oh, yea I guess that has been mentioned here before. Take away one gold star
and move one row back please!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Barrister]

Baseless and pointless! Now lets talk in the real shall we. How your contract working for you? you know LOA93 the industries worst? Where o where can that DOH be OH where oh where can it be?? its in the same place your pay and benfits are, the cellar!!

No personal attacks here oldie just facts and the fact still remains, you have no valid arguement and the ones your legal team do present are weak at best.

Tomorrow we will look at and break down just why usapa is worse than scabs. Tune in for that discussion.

AWA320

OK, we are waiting!!

NICDOA
NPJB