US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

Might check your situational awareness, Team tempe has 2 choices , a joint CBA that allows the WEST to be downsized or shut down to cover EAST attrition and int'l growth, or split this baby up, either way the EAST will NEVER , regardless of what a court says, vote for a seniority proposal, that allows EAST pilots to lose jobs to pilots hired a decade plus after them! NOW BLAB on CLEAR!MM!

Nearly four years of denial results in your inability to accurately describe the results of the NIC. There is no great loss under the NIC. It is a ratio-based integration where everyone effectively retains the position and seniority status that they had on the day the two operating entities were merged. The west lost 172 top seniority positions (517/3) under the NIC and the east lost nothing. That is, the number one most senior east pilot is/was still number one on the NIC. The lowest-seniority active east pilot was still the lowest-seniority pilot on the NIC, except that he now has guys who were on furlough who are active pilots so he has actually advanced seniority under the NIC, contrary to your post. There was and is no job loss using the NIC, especially for the east. There has been a collective unwillingness on the part of the east to accept the reality of the NIC as an integrated list and to classify it as something that takes away from the east, which it does not. Except for the top HP pilots, everybody retains the position/status they had on 9/27/2005 which is exactly how it should be.

If the east were fighting the NIC because it in fact removed an active east pilot from his job and replaced him with a furloughed west pilot (if there had been any), then I could at least understand the outrage and resolve of the east to reject the NIC. I wouldn’t agree with seeking to violate binding arbitration, but at least I could understand why the emotions and resistance was so high. That didn’t happen and the east pilots’ resolve regarding a phantom issue is best described as a case of paranoid-delusional groupthink. USAPIANS seem to always reject that which would be good for them and accept that which actually causes them harm. No wonder you are stuck in the situation you are in and Management can play USAPA like a fiddle. At least USAPA’s strategy (complete ineptitude fueled by a misplaced rage) gives US Airways the best chance for financial success as USAPA rejects any and all opportunities to gain something at the negotiating table.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Nearly four years of denial results in your inability to accurately describe the results of the NIC. There is no great loss under the NIC. It is a ratio-based integration where everyone effectively retains the position and seniority status that they had on the day the two operating entities were merged. The west lost 172 top seniority positions (517/3) under the NIC and the east lost nothing. That is, the number one most senior east pilot is/was still number one on the NIC. The lowest-seniority active east pilot was still the lowest-seniority pilot on the NIC, except that he now has guys who were on furlough who are active pilots so he has actually advanced seniority under the NIC, contrary to your post. There was and is no job loss using the NIC, especially for the east. There has been a collective unwillingness on the part of the east to accept the reality of the NIC as an integrated list and to classify it as something that takes away from the east, which it does not. Except for the top HP pilots, everybody retains the position/status they had on 9/27/2005 which is exactly how it should be.

If the east were fighting the NIC because it in fact removed an active east pilot from his job and replaced him with a furloughed west pilot (if there had been any), then I could at least understand the outrage and resolve of the east to reject the NIC. I wouldn’t agree with seeking to violate binding arbitration, but at least I could understand why the emotions and resistance was so high. That didn’t happen and the east pilots’ resolve regarding a phantom issue is best described as a case of paranoid-delusional groupthink. USAPIANS seem to always reject that which would be good for them and accept that which actually causes them harm. No wonder you are stuck in the situation you are in and Management can play USAPA like a fiddle. At least USAPA’s strategy (complete ineptitude fueled by a misplaced rage) gives US Airways the best chance for financial success as USAPA rejects any and all opportunities to gain something at the negotiating table.

You'd be a lot happier if you'd just let it go....

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I see the blabbering by the 2 C's has begun, ! JAMIE, JJ, JG, MM!

 

[nic4us]

That particular clip has been explained on here at LEAST a thousand times (speaking for effect here). Either you're really dense or you just refuse to understand. I'm guessing some of both.

hahahahahah...hahahh...a thousand times....really.

How many times you reneging malcontents been told you ain't getting DOH.

Dream on usapa supporters, you have slept through the Wake up call and missed your show.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

hahahahahah...hahahh...a thousand times....really.

How many times you reneging malcontents been told you ain't getting DOH.

Dream on usapa supporters, you have slept through the Wake up call and missed your show.

Actually WAKE was flying upwind, weve missed nothing but maybe you might check your pockets, you might be missing some 2MILL+! JAMIE, JJ, JG, MM!

 

[CallawayGolf]

You'd be a lot happier if you'd just let it go....

As usual, your quips are way off base. I am not unhappy, especially the regarding the conduct of USAPA. In fact, USAPA could gain all they ever hoped for (DOH, industry-leading wages, divestiture of US along east/west lines, whatever), and my emotional state of being happy and content in life wouldn’t change a bit. As much as I would like to see justice enforced and the perpetrators of this woeful disregard for contractual obligations to be shown just how wrong their actions have been, I hold no false hope that we can count on the courts to make a correct ruling each and every time. If it happens, great; if USAPA skates by on multiple technicalities and left-leaning judges, well that’s just the world we live in. My happiness is not tied to the outcome.

My satisfaction (on this forum) comes from my posting a well-reasoned and logical polemic regarding this situation and to watch as the east posters simply fling baseless retorts back rather than using proof or logic to show how I am wrong. Posts like yours simple reaffirm that I have a grasp on the truth of what is going on here and most of the east posters are unwilling or a unable to respond in kind because they don’t have truth, logic or a moral framework from which to engage in a intellectually honest debate. I’m fine with either kind of response, but I know what will be returned in most cases – something like “the NIC is dead” when there has never been a single statement to that effect by any federal judge or mediator. The east delusion is still going strong.

 

[AWA320]

The Ninth even opined it was an internal union matter... No need to guess about that... it's clearly written.

Yeah so was the part about unquestionable ripness too!! Cant have it all.

AWA320

 

[nic4us]

Actually WAKE was flying upwind, weve missed nothing but maybe you might check your pockets, you might be missing some 2MILL+! JAMIE, JJ, JG, MM!

The reality of the situation is usapa will never get DOH into a contract at LCC. The company's DJ request is a direct result of the 2 million the West has spent in defense of the usapian seniority theives.

The company gets it, use anything other than the Nic, get sued, waste money, lose "unquestionably ripe DFR".

The only problem the company faces is, to what extent the reneging east pilots will go to enforce their unlawful attempts at ditching their obligations under binding arbitration. They are rightfully concerned, because the east has already proven itself to be dishonorable, untrustworthy, lying, cheating scumbags, who have no regard for their fellow employees.

Armed with a scumbag lawyer, who uses ever underhanded tactic in the book to intimidate the opposition, the company rightfully has more concern over what usapa might do than what actions the West pilots might take. However, usapa's day of reconing is drawing near. The slap down will commence with the rule 11 findings, followed by the declaratory judgement.

The problem with bending the rules, like usapa and Seeham do, is you build up tortion. When the decision is made that releases the stress, the rule will slap back, and the more you twisted it, the harder it will hit you. usapa is in for one major slapping.

 

[AWA320]

We were offered several percentages over west book and were not told? And the west would have settled for it? We get it anything for NIC!, and us senior guy's didn't know way back when retiring under loa93 was a possibility , sort of like relizing my kids got older and someone was going to have to pay college expenses, No! a sorry excuse for a union "gave" my, "yes gave" MY "pension away in the middle of the night. I am thankful I have the PBGC, so spin that, and a pension investigation, As for your DJ, stall tactic by a scumbag company looking for the next transaction ! JAMIE JG, JJ, MM! ALPA SUX

The original proposal which has become known as the Kirby was 3% over west book which I think was 13% for the east but garbage for the west. We didnt want it as all the gains went east. Now there was a rumor that the offer went to west plus 10% but I never cared enough to confirm. If it was true that would mean 23% for the east over west book. Now you could indeed turn your nose up at it and for all intents and purposes I really dont care at this point.

I now hear some ramblings on the east about taking a chance with fragmentation and all that tells me is that they have no clue what that really means.

AWA320

 

[N924PS]

As usual, your quips are way off base. I am not unhappy, especially the regarding the conduct of USAPA. In fact, USAPA could gain all they ever hoped for (DOH, industry-leading wages, divestiture of US along east/west lines, whatever), and my emotional state of being happy and content in life wouldn’t change a bit. As much as I would like to see justice enforced and the perpetrators of this woeful disregard for contractual obligations to be shown just how wrong their actions have been, I hold no false hope that we can count on the courts to make a correct ruling each and every time. If it happens, great; if USAPA skates by on multiple technicalities and left-leaning judges, well that’s just the world we live in. My happiness is not tied to the outcome.

My satisfaction (on this forum) comes from my posting a well-reasoned and logical polemic regarding this situation and to watch as the east posters simply fling baseless retorts back rather than using proof or logic to show how I am wrong. Posts like yours simple reaffirm that I have a grasp on the truth of what is going on here and most of the east posters are unwilling or a unable to respond in kind because they don’t have truth, logic or a moral framework from which to engage in a intellectually honest debate. I’m fine with either kind of response, but I know what will be returned in most cases – something like “the NIC is dead” when there has never been a single statement to that effect by any federal judge or mediator. The east delusion is still going strong.

Exceptional post.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The original proposal which has become known as the Kirby was 3% over west book which I think was 13% for the east but garbage for the west. We didnt want it as all the gains went east. Now there was a rumor that the offer went to west plus 10% but I never cared enough to confirm. If it was true that would mean 23% for the east over west book. Now you could indeed turn your nose up at it and for all intents and purposes I really dont care at this point.

I now hear some ramblings on the east about taking a chance with fragmentation and all that tells me is that they have no clue what that really means.

AWA320

Hey, your 44 good for you, JETZ says starting over at UNITED or DELTA will be good for ya! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Exceptional post.

How much did you and calloway contribute to TOM DeLAY ? JAMIE , JG, MM, MM!

 

[AWA320]

Your question was answered by Oldie... WE DO HAVE DATE OF HIRE... A new contract will take time as the company is not at all eager to do anything to get embroiled in the litigation happy west contingent nor are they eager to increase their costs... so what else is so obscure to you?

Oldeee didnt answer a thing just personal attacks which is the last stand of a failing empire. There is no valid arguement that the east can make and coming into court with that lame "the arbitration was just a proposal" arguement is dumber than stupid! Why would the company even care if the west was litigation happy or not. They have much deeper pockets so that makes no sense. I think its because LCC doesnt share usapa views arbitrations and contracts. I know they know we have a contract and so doesn usapa but they want the company to breach and take on 100% of the risk in hopes the west pilots that bought and saved your jobs will just lay down and take it in the rear. Not gonna happen.

I hear that that LCC is about to start full typing every F/O as they pass thru training and that could only mean they are preparing for and east meltdown. Wow having a typed and ready f/o's to make the quick and east transition to the left seat. Sounds like SWA lance captain program. Ohhh how I hope the east melts down now.

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

That particular clip has been explained on here at LEAST a thousand times (speaking for effect here). Either you're really dense or you just refuse to understand. I'm guessing some of both.

Unhuh thats called SPIN!!!

AWA320

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

LCC, is typeing F/o's thru training?, no way! JAMIE, JJ, JG, MM! Now that's meltdown preparation for sure!