US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AWA320]

If you're the guy that rumors say you are, then you're one of the guys that refused to negotiate at Wye River and fired Jeffrey Freund as your lawyer. More evidence of your brilliant legal knowledge.

DOH is a done deal. Better get used to the idea.

Yea, sure. Dishonorable. Like trying to steal someone else's seniority, I guess? Well then, I don't have to worry about that.

First of all it really doesnt matter who I am as it has zero bearing on the situation. Second I was not at wye river but I can tell you if I was there I would have said no after the fact deals. Third Jeff Frenud was not fired as we had no reason to fire him.

I am used to an idea and that is you will never get DOH as it pertains to our integration. Now I know you want it, I know you pray for it but its just not going to happen.

Seham and usapa have you brain washed and you will most certainly lose as you have lost already. Now answer this, If DOH is so easy they why dont you have it already?? It would seem that its such an easy task so why dont you have it??

You cant!!! There is my brillant legal knowledge right there.

AWA320

 

[oldiebutgoody]

...Seham and usapa have you brain washed and you will most certainly lose as you have lost already. Now answer this, If DOH is so easy they why dont you have it already?? It would seem that its such an easy task so why dont you have it??

You cant!!! There is my brillant legal knowledge right there.

AWA320

We DO have it. What do YOU have? (hint: go to the USAPA web site and read your contract)

Absolutely BRILLANT! (to use YOUR spelling)

And, I guess if I let down my friends and coworkers by not listening to MY lawyers and lost, I might be trying to justify my position on a web board with illogical reasoning, insults and namecalling as well. Too late. You screwed up and let your buds down. The best you could do now is just to fade away. Of course, you'll still have to deal with the guilt.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Its only a majority opinion, at that.

Does this mean that the score is two federal judges supporting Addington and 11 against?

Or, since the 9th previously refused the "en banc" hearing, I suppose that makes it 2 vs. 20? But then it gets really muddied, since you can't count Tashima and Graber twice, but Bybee even voted down the "en banc." So that might make it 1 vs. 20!

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

First of all it really doesnt matter who I am as it has zero bearing on the situation. Second I was not at wye river but I can tell you if I was there I would have said no after the fact deals. Third Jeff Frenud was not fired as we had no reason to fire him.

I am used to an idea and that is you will never get DOH as it pertains to our integration. Now I know you want it, I know you pray for it but its just not going to happen.

Seham and usapa have you brain washed and you will most certainly lose as you have lost already. Now answer this, If DOH is so easy they why dont you have it already?? It would seem that its such an easy task so why dont you have it??

You cant!!! There is my brillant legal knowledge right there.

AWA320

The RLA in the latest cycle has proven to be a 3-5 year process with the average time with a mediator around 3 years. It has nothing to do with ALPA, USAPA, NIC, or DOH. Attempting to assign the delays and flaws of the RLA to USAPA or DOH is spin, pure and simple. If you are willing to work for any crap that is thrown out the process of course could be expedited and when the cycle ends you would find yourself dead last with a 5-8 year wait to get it right next time or closer to industry standard while standing further away from the mark. USAPA has been in mediated negotiations for what, 9 months? You are only a 1/3 of the way there regardless of any other issue.

Spin away, I guess but if you are assigning the pace of negotiations to USAPA, what was the problem with Air Cargo International, Spirit or Air Tran, and why is it taking so darn long at Evergreen, American, United, or Continental? If you answered something other than USAPA, you would be correct. Wherever you got your brilliant legal knowledge, you need a serious refund.

 

[AWA320]

We DO have it. What do YOU have? (hint: go to the USAPA web site and read your contract)

Absolutely BRILLANT! (to use YOUR spelling)

And, I guess if I let down my friends and coworkers by not listening to MY lawyers and lost, I might be trying to justify my position on a web board with illogical reasoning, insults and namecalling as well. Too late. You screwed up and let your buds down. The best you could do now is just to fade away. Of course, you'll still have to deal with the guilt.

What?? You are now just rambling on and on. The west merger atty was never fired so you have bad info. I have no idea how I have let anyone down from my position. Look you can not win this and all you are doing is wasting time living under a sub standard contract for peanuts.

So let me say it again so that you can understand it. If you could get DOH you would have it. Where is it??? Huh??? In fact where is your snapback??? Where is your parity?? What has usapa ever produced except high hopes?? You can not win Oldie and that much should have been obvious.

Oh and for the record AOL hired their own attys and the Jeff is still the west merger atty unless we were to merge with UAL where he must rep UAL first.

DOH???
Snapback????
Parity?????
Contract??????
Anything of value usapa produced?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

AWA320

 

[LSS]

Tell me something, had Nic said DOH would you still be claiming the horsesht that the arbitration process was just a proposal???

You are so brain washed that you really believe that you will get DOH a snapback and a new contract. Who can mess with that logic? Go get it man!!


AWA320

Yes I would DS... You again call it a "snap back"... not an accurate term... read my post again... You need to take your meds!

 

[LSS]

First of all it really doesnt matter who I am as it has zero bearing on the situation. Second I was not at wye river but I can tell you if I was there I would have said no after the fact deals. Third Jeff Frenud was not fired as we had no reason to fire him.

I am used to an idea and that is you will never get DOH as it pertains to our integration. Now I know you want it, I know you pray for it but its just not going to happen.

Seham and usapa have you brain washed and you will most certainly lose as you have lost already. Now answer this, If DOH is so easy they why dont you have it already?? It would seem that its such an easy task so why dont you have it??

You cant!!! There is my brillant legal knowledge right there.

AWA320

I'll ask you the same question... if the NIC is it... why is it not in place???... why is the company seeking cover in the DJ filing if its a done deal!?????????

 

[AWA320]

The RLA in the latest cycle has proven to be a 3-5 year process with the average time with a mediator around 3 years. It has nothing to do with ALPA, USAPA, NIC, or DOH. Attempting to assign the delays and flaws of the RLA to USAPA or DOH is spin, pure and simple. If you are willing to work for any crap that is thrown out the process of course could be expedited and when the cycle ends you would find yourself dead last with a 5-8 year wait to get it right next time or closer to industry standard while standing further away from the mark. USAPA has been in mediated negotiations for what, 9 months? You are only a 1/3 of the way there regardless of any other issue.

Spin away, I guess but if you are assigning the pace of negotiations to USAPA, what was the problem with Air Cargo International, Spirit or Air Tran, and why is it taking so darn long at Evergreen, American, United, or Continental? If you answered something other than USAPA, you would be correct. Wherever you got your brilliant legal knowledge, you need a serious refund.

You are as incorrect as two left feet. The fact of the matter is you have no idea what you are even talking about, How is the RLA a process of negotiations??? Its not!! The RLA is the law that covers airlines and trains. It has ZERO to do with negotiations. You need to educate yourself next time before you post.

No spin here at all as I know that the company offered several percentages over west book and the pilots in the east were shielded from the information.

I know usapa begs you all to get out here and post to try and save them but the word is out and usapa is on borrowed time. Once the loa93 loss hits and those senior guys you have realize they retire under LOA93 with nothing to look fwd to but the PBGC you will have lost the biggest part of that sorry excuse for a union.

Get to work on just how you are gonna spin that! I guess you may as well start the process on how you are gonna spin the DJ which should be out by spring. There is a lot of spin work ahead for you better get started.

AWA320

 

[N924PS]

Does this mean that the score is two federal judges supporting Addington and 11 against?

Or, since the 9th previously refused the "en banc" hearing, I suppose that makes it 2 vs. 20? But then it gets really muddied, since you can't count Tashima and Graber twice, but Bybee even voted down the "en banc." So that might make it 1 vs. 20!

Maybe you can figure it out when you're a BPR member.

Congratulations on your nomination. It will be good to have such a senior pilot as a rep.

Looking forward to your service, if elected.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You are as incorrect as two left feet. The fact of the matter is you have no idea what you are even talking about, How is the RLA a process of negotiations??? Its not!! The RLA is the law that covers airlines and trains. It has ZERO to do with negotiations. You need to educate yourself next time before you post.

No spin here at all as I know that the company offered several percentages over west book and the pilots in the east were shielded from the information.

I know usapa begs you all to get out here and post to try and save them but the word is out and usapa is on borrowed time. Once the loa93 loss hits and those senior guys you have realize they retire under LOA93 with nothing to look fwd to but the PBGC you will have lost the biggest part of that sorry excuse for a union.

Get to work on just how you are gonna spin that! I guess you may as well start the process on how you are gonna spin the DJ which should be out by spring. There is a lot of spin work ahead for you better get started.

AWA320

Huh? I think maybe LSS was wrong. Maybe you need a lot LESS meds. Something has you VERY confused.

Yep. AWA would hire ANYBODY. The proof is right there.

 

[AWA320]

I'll ask you the same question... if the NIC is it... why is it not in place???... why is the company seeking cover in the DJ filing if its a done deal!?????????

Why answer my question with a question? Why would the company need to seek as you put it "cover"?? Think it may have something to do with breaching a contract? I guess the company doesnt share the usapa view of an arbitration as a negotiating proposal. I have to give it seham, just thow as much crap on the wall as you can and see what you can get to stick.

No indemnity for LCC against west law suits means no DOH for you and usapa. Now we've hit the lose, lose situation. Some will lose far more than others. Those that retire in 12 lose the most and its just goes on from there.

Your turn now to answer my question.

AWA320

 

[sumadarson]

Feel better about what? Did I EVER claim that the SCOTUS was going to resolve this issue? In fact I don't remember anyone saying there was more than even a slim chance of SCOTUS taking up the case. And that certainly wasn't me. The west's best chance to a quick resolution is the DJ, although I personally have small hope that will go anyone's way. I'd say about 50/50, no more. It probably puts you all back at square one. It's DFR II where I predict you easties will have your biggest fall. Until you have your DOH contract and no more LOA 93 poverty pay rates, you have won nothing. I'd say the west has done a pretty good job of fending that tactic off so far. Wouldn't you, butterhead?

Did you give my message to gillen and rice? Nice try incompetents and lame ducks.

The LOA 93 will be decided in the companies favor. The frivolous declaratory judgment will be dismissed very soon by the Judge, due to it being an internal union matter. The company will appeal but the dismissal will be affirmed. It all comes back to SCOTUS and the 9th circuit court rulings. This paves the way for a clean slate for a transaction involving the assets and turf of Usairways.

The management of this company have their personal change of control protection for a carrot on a stick to guide them. It all comes down to the money, although they will tout "for the good of the employees and flying public" bs to explain their actions. Look for things to happen fast, corporate transaction is inevitable. The East side will be in the hands of American Airlines or Virgin Air or similar, the west will be dealt to Mesa after they leave bk, or Frontier Airlines or similar. The selling point for the American or other employees is that the East side will be run separately for years and most workers will not be integrated. The west side will be integrated with Mesa or Frontier.

DFR 2? Suing a union that will no longer exist after the above transactions take place, is not possible.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

You are as incorrect as two left feet. The fact of the matter is you have no idea what you are even talking about, How is the RLA a process of negotiations??? Its not!! The RLA is the law that covers airlines and trains. It has ZERO to do with negotiations. You need to educate yourself next time before you post.

No spin here at all as I know that the company offered several percentages over west book and the pilots in the east were shielded from the information.

I know usapa begs you all to get out here and post to try and save them but the word is out and usapa is on borrowed time. Once the loa93 loss hits and those senior guys you have realize they retire under LOA93 with nothing to look fwd to but the PBGC you will have lost the biggest part of that sorry excuse for a union.

Get to work on just how you are gonna spin that! I guess you may as well start the process on how you are gonna spin the DJ which should be out by spring. There is a lot of spin work ahead for you better get started.

AWA320

The RLA dictates that contracts do not expire but become amendable and requires a process of attempting direct negotiation, mediation, followed by a proffer of arbitration, a 30 day cooling off period and release to self-help should the parties be unable to reconcile. There is always a PEB established by Presidential order to delay the self-help period further. One step has to occur before the next and unfortunately the mediator has complete administrative control under the auspices and direction of the NMB. As you can see by the numerous examples I posted, they have used this administrative control to create a pattern of protracted negotiations. American has 5 unions that are all over 3 years in negotiations and 2+ in mediation, one of which has voted on and rejected a contract and as the mediator assigned in each case as well as the others listed has yet to make the proffer of arbitration in any case. This almost always benefits the corporation but that is the process and all the examples of recent where the mediator has held the parties in negotiation in an attempt to reach a deal had nothing to with the seniority of the name of the union. It is the government bureaucracy dictated policy du jour to go to unrealistic lengths to reconcile the parties involved, like it or hate it.

Your legal knowledge wasn't worth what you spent on it, and its even more frightening that you don't know the RLA section 6 process by which contracts are negotiated or the current status of other airline labor negotiations if you were a union rep as has been alleged.

 

[AWA320]

Huh? I think maybe LSS was wrong. Maybe you need a lot LESS meds. Something has you VERY confused.

Yep. AWA would hire ANYBODY. The proof is right there.

See this is what happens when you have no winning arguement, you have to resort to personal insults. Its clear that you have lost now all you need to do now is accept it.

See no personal attacks and no insults on my part. I know I have won the arguement.

AWA320

 

[mikey60]

Got under that old tired skin of yours huh? Dont be upset that you weren't accepted, i'm sure it happens to many. Gettin paid to post hmmm, are you stateing here on this forum that usapa pays you to post?? Ohh the name calling Now I know i'm under your old tired skin. Do yourself a favor and just retire now with what little dignity you have left.

AWA320

Hey wawa320,got your but kicked didnt ya...how much do you have invested in that loss 20-30grand, you could buy a lot of boxed wine for that. I bet the mrs. had a few after that was announced today. I bet we wont see any Napa wine flowing in the double wide tonight. In case you have a little trouble making ends meet I think Barnum & Bailey is hiring clowns this week and you sure fit in. Start saying " I LIKE USAPA" you will get used to it.