US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Mike Cleary’s “quote” from his president’s message a 7:56

The Airline Parties will accept such integrated seniority list, including conditions and restrictions

“end quote”

That does not end the quote. This is the rest of the story. He seems to have left out an important part of this. Besides no one has decided if a DOH list DOES meet these criteria. Cleary left out a big chunk of what the T/A says.

IV. Seniority List Integration

A. The seniority lists of America West pilots and US Airways pilots will be integrated in accordance with ALPA Merger Policy and submitted to the Airline Parties for acceptance. The Airline Parties will accept such integrated seniority list, including conditions and restrictions, if such list and the conditions and restrictions comply with the following criteria:

1. no "system flush" whereby an active pilot may displace any other active pilot from the latter’s Position; and

2. furloughed pilots may not bump/displace active pilots; and

3. no requirement for pilots to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g., differential pay for a position not actually flown); and

4. allows pilots who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, are in the process of completing or who have completed initial qualification training for a new category (e.g., A320 Captain or 757 First Officer) to be assigned to the position for which they have been trained, regardless of their relative standing on the integrated seniority list; and

5. does not contain conditions and restrictions that materially increase costs associated with training or company paid moves.

Twice Cleary stated the “The courts have already decided the seniority issue” If that is the case how does that square with the quote he used at 10:16?

This is the “quote” that Cleary used.

“By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith.”

Notice the period at the end of the quote. Now look at the entire quote in context. How is it that the according to Cleary the court decided but here they say that they DEFERED judicial intervention? Does usapa really think that we are so blind not to notice that glaring problem?

By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members — both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified.

Notice that there is no period where Cleary chose to end his quote. That is not being honest with the membership at all.

How about at 10:06

The present impasse, in fact, could well be prolonged by prematurely resolving the West Pilots’ claim judicially at this point.

The court themselves say that they did not solve anything other than deciding “prematurely” not ripe yet? that certainly does not sound to me like the ninth "decided seniority"

You will also note that these are FOOTNOTE from the opinion not in the body of the text. Why would Cleary and Seham have to use footnotes and take them completely out of context in order to make their point? Could it be because what you guys trying to force the ninth’s opinion into saying is not what is really says? I will direct you to the findings of fact.

While neither side has refrained from taking dubious legal positions, USAPA has at various stages misstated law, facts, and procedural history, with frequent recourse to the “contradiction or confusion . . . produced by a medley of judicial phrases severed from their environment.”

 

[AWA320]

Funny....

the thing about the saving people...who has pilots out on furlough and has closed 50% of their bases? oh and that 20 whatever percent east flying stuff....

We can play this game all day...keep chirping! I'll say one thing about you, you love to mouth off...It's awesome, I wish I was your friend so you could tell me about how great your airline career is and how the Eastie's are so mean to you. Ahhh but alas it's not to be...oh well I love reading your posts! They're so informative! You are amazing. I can't get over how intelligent and thought out everything I've read of yours is...It just warms my heart.
I'm going to *try* and let you know how awesome you are after every post you make because I don't think your self esteem is high enough and that's why you're so negative towards others. You're a little doll! Keep up the good work!

Very interesting,

See before we at lil ol AWA was forced to lay down with scabs we were on the rise. AWA was buying planes, running classes of 30/month and making profits. Douglas without thought decided he could do what no other carrier or CEO could do and that was save usless air. See useless air was shrinking, furloughed up to almost 50% and returning airbuses to the lessor. Usless air was the second thought of west management. They wanted ATA not AAA. Now think for a moment, if not for AWA you would today be serving me fries at and airport MickyD's as that would be the closest to an airline job you would get

I know the truth hurts my man but someone has to make you take a look at yourselves. You are the worst the industry has to offer. You are paid the worst of every legacy carrier and now even below RJ captains. That has to make you feel real good everytime you see your check stub huh???

I have the ability to go else where and still make a career of it but now my job is to rid the industry of you and your kind. Scabs have no place in this industry and usapa is one huge scab. Enjoy the confines of LOA 93 and be proud that the east is the worst of the worst. Hold your head high and proclaim I am an east usair pilot and I am winning the race to the bottom...

AWA320

 

[cleardirect]

Funny....

the thing about the saving people...who has pilots out on furlough and has closed 50% of their bases? oh and that 20 whatever percent east flying stuff....

We can play this game all day...keep chirping! I'll say one thing about you, you love to mouth off...It's awesome, I wish I was your friend so you could tell me about how great your airline career is and how the Eastie's are so mean to you. Ahhh but alas it's not to be...oh well I love reading your posts! They're so informative! You are amazing. I can't get over how intelligent and thought out everything I've read of yours is...It just warms my heart.
I'm going to *try* and let you know how awesome you are after every post you make because I don't think your self esteem is high enough and that's why you're so negative towards others. You're a little doll! Keep up the good work!

Pssst. The east closed 50% of your "highly profitable" bases too. How much of your flying is being done by commuter wages 190 pilots? I guess I should have said sub commuter wages because your mainline captains are making about what a commuter captain makes.

I guess saving you from yourselves is proving to be a little more difficult.

 

[AWA320]

He lives in a fantasy world...

Oh, and AWA320...When you fly with me , don't forget to check the tops of the wings for ice in the winter when you are doing your FO walkarouund.

Yo butter whats up? Hahahah that was funny Naw when the nic is put in place by summer I will be bidding EAST capt. I know this is what you all fear but its what you did that caused it. You will have to get someone more Jr to do your walk around for you.

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

A little different when they are a captive audience on your jumpseat..wouldn't you say? I mean if that's where you pull your "Usapa sucks...yadda yadda yadda" card...not really the same as going up to one in public and starting your diatribe.

But...before I forget...Great post! Well thought out...Keep it up...go check that mirror out and give yourself a wink!

Don't pity the East...most of them are pitying you...Really their hearts go out to you...someone so angry...I'm glad you have the board as an outlet.

I dont force them to ride the jumpseat but if they do then they have to expect to get what they get with regard to labor conversations. They can pity me all the way to 100% deadhead and Cancellation pay. I got that a couple of weeks ago. You guys get that too right??

PROFIT SHARING hmmm nice.

LOA93 has got you by the shorts and bringing you down. Did I mention that I make more to fly the same equip than your top east f/o on the same type?? Yeah!! How you like them apples

AWA320

AWA320

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Yo butter whats up? Hahahah that was funny Naw when the nic is put in place by summer I will be bidding EAST capt. I know this is what you all fear but its what you did that caused it. You will have to get someone more Jr to do your walk around for you.

AWA320

Keep living in your fantasy world...

The Nic is dead. You'll find out more about that tomorrow.

 

[Missfit]

Very interesting,

See before we at lil ol AWA was forced to lay down with scabs we were on the rise. AWA was buying planes, running classes of 30/month and making profits. Douglas without thought decided he could do what no other carrier or CEO could do and that was save usless air.....

AWA320

Keep Chirping shows how ignorant you are...You do know the definition of a "scab" right? Not a definition you make up....

And you had actual scabs on your list.

But keep making stuff up you may have a future as a fiction writer.

I'm not an East pilot so...whatever...

But once again..good post... a little bit of a run on, kind of had some made up stuff in it but I get where you're coming from...and It's waaaay out there.
Pat on the back for you!

 

[Missfit]

I dont force them to ride the jumpseat but if they do then they have to expect to get what they get with regard to labor conversations. They can pity me all the way to 100% deadhead and Cancellation pay. I got that a couple of weeks ago. You guys get that too right??

PROFIT SHARING hmmm nice.

LOA93 has got you by the shorts and bringing you down. Did I mention that I make more to fly the same equip than your top east f/o on the same type?? Yeah!! How you like them apples

AWA320

AWA320

*sigh*

I never said they were forced to ride "your jumpseat" you were wondering why they don't come up to you in the airport in PHL...I asked why you didn't go up to them...you went on to say that you express your opinions from your throne in the cockpit...see how you never really answered my question about approaching an "Eastie" I for one know a few that I'd love for you to go up to and start yapping.

Do I mention that the top East F/O moves up to a Captain position, bigger equipment and so on minus the Nic..but with the Nic stays where they are much longer than they should? That's kind of why you won't get a Nic contract, you'd think after 5 years if the East were really only interested in a (as history has always shown...probably temporary) pay raise they'd have pushed for your No-Go Nic a long time ago?

They'd rather have you out there with your pouty faces, stompin your feet, clenching your fists and telling them how you hate them cause you can't leapfrog up their list.

 

[nic4us]

approaching an "Eastie" I for one know a few

don't loan them any money.

 

[nic4us]

They'd rather have you out there with your pouty faces, stompin your feet, clenching your fists and telling them how you hate them cause you can't leapfrog up their list.

we are not on "their list", don't want to "leapfrog" "their list", could care a less about "their list".

They are upset because "their" company was aquired and "their list" is now mostly irrelevant, other than how "their list" was used to place them on OUR LIST.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

we are not on "their list", don't want to "leapfrog" "their list", could care a less about "their list".

They are upset because "their" company was aquired and "their list" is now mostly irrelevant, other than how "their list" was used to place them on OUR LIST.

Another one living in a fantasy world. You're on the list, you just don't get to steal anybody's seniority. Too bad for you.

 

[Missfit]

we are not on "their list", don't want to "leapfrog" "their list", could care a less about "their list".

They are upset because "their" company was aquired and "their list" is now mostly irrelevant, other than how "their list" was used to place them on OUR LIST.

Hmm....

You guys are so found of quoting Wikipedia and all...

Mergers & Acquisitions...
"Although often used synonymously, the terms merger and acquisition mean slightly different things.[2] When one company takes over another and clearly establishes itself as the new owner, the purchase is called an acquisition. From a legal point of view, the target company ceases to exist, the buyer "swallows" the business and the buyer's stock continues to be traded.

In the pure sense of the term, a merger happens when two firms agree to go forward as a single new company rather than remain separately owned and operated. "

Now I'm sorry I missed the memo where the mighty and powerful America West caused Us Air to cease to exist and continues to trade America West stock...
I did get the one whereby the two combined to move forward as a "New" company...named Us Airways (Although America West had a huge international profile and really should have been used...but Doug did go with Cactus as the call sign that has to make you feel warm and fuzzy)

It's okay nic4us, no you're not on "their" list...and you won't be on "their" list, not anytime soon and hopefully not in your Nic spot. Stay out in PHX you guys are content there...besides you're making more than the East right?
Alpa and their wishy washy Merger Policies(There's that merger word again..not acquisition) caused this mess. Maybe if they were a little more iron clad you wouldn't be having to buy neato coloured badge backers.

I think a neon pink one would look great on you guys!

 

[luvthe9]

Why do you westies still rant and rave about this NIC thing, you guys know it's long gone. Please join the rest of us in reality, it's just like Oldie said "your on the list" be grateful Parker did not put "Project Zanzibar" in to place.!!!!!

 

[N924PS]

I'm not an East pilot so...whatever...

No. But you are married to one.......whatever.

 

[cleardirect]

*sigh*

Do I mention that the top East F/O moves up to a Captain position, bigger equipment and so on minus the Nic..but with the Nic stays where they are much longer than they should? That's kind of why you won't get a Nic contract, you'd think after 5 years if the East were really only interested in a (as history has always shown...probably temporary) pay raise they'd have pushed for your No-Go Nic a long time ago?

They'd rather have you out there with your pouty faces, stompin your feet, clenching your fists and telling them how you hate them cause you can't leapfrog up their list.

Longer than they should according to who? Unmerged?

Just to be accurate how about you tell us how long the Nicolau delays the east?