US Pilots Labor Discussion

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And you're too dumb to realize who you're talking to. At UA we have always had an A fund (DBP, ie: pension), AND a B fund (DCP or 401K). The company puts a negotiated % into our B fund above and beyond our salary without our having to contribute a dime. We can also contribute to the B fund up to the legal limits. Since UA's BK and the distressed termination of our A fund, the B fund % has gone up and a C fund has also been negotiated. In all, 16% ADDITIONAL money goes into our combined B & C fund, in addition to anything I choose to contribute. That was negotiated in BK to replace the pension. Look at what Delta did when they terminated the A fund. You are clueless. Like I said in my first post, do your homework. You have no idea what the industry standard DCP contribution is. If you had a new industry standard contract, not only would you have a huge pay raise, but an additional chunk going into your "401K." But you'd rather hold out for that fourth stripe that belongs to a west captain, at poverty wages, that you may never had seen absent the merger anyway. Real smart. :rolleyes:

You are obviously blinded by your bitterness, anger and fear, as are most of your east cohorts on this forum. You have no one to blame for your situation than yourselves. But you hold everyone else hostage in the mean time, which is where the damages to the west will come in. At my age of hire with UA, I would have had over 32 years (37 years now) when I retire off the 747 left seat. If the pension was not terminated I would have had close to 200K per year from my DBP based on the last formula. So don't preach to me about not knowing about such an animal.

But as I said before in my original response, retiring with $500K in a 401K is embarrassing for an airline pilot. So is living on LOA 93 wages. Luckily many of us "youngings" as you put it saw the writing on the pension wall long before 9-11 or BK, so it was always icing on the cake as far as I was concerned, since day one of my employment with the airline. If you waited until BK 2 to start saving in a 401K or similar investment vehicle, you sir are even more stupid than you appear on the internet. And it's another example of having no one to blame but yourself, while you try desperately to blame anyone and everyone else. Sleep in the bed that you made. Sweet dreams! :lol:

about the only thing your good at it, younging, is name calling. Hope your career stays intact. You'll never have what I have. You want to start comparing assets, you go first but I guarantee you....you'll finish last. No wonder United is F/Upped
 
I was asked a while back to entertain the board and offer my thoughts on the "position the West is in".

I forgot who asked and wanted to reply but ran out of time, as there were other more pressing post that needed replies. However, after wasting my time and posting those replies(some of which seem to have been removed) I will now offer my thoughts on the position the West is in.

A piss poor one.

The West is tied to a group whose word is untruthful. Conscripted to an organization whose intent is to harm. The West has little or no influence on the advancement of the pilot group, cannot participate in contract negotiations, has our contract violated with no effective grievence process in place. The list of bull the West has had to endure because the east fell for the scumbag union busting lawyers bs of how he could help you renege on binding arbitration is getting quite long.

However, there are three very bright sides to the West's position. One, we have collectively kicked usapa in the butt (next up the crotch, then the teeth). Two, we exert more pressure on the company with our threat of litigation, than usapa can as the bargaining agent. That is why the usapa experiment of reneging on binding arbitration is doomed to fail. Three, the West is in the position on being right. Right with the law, right with the method, right with the company.

To sum, and for the umpteenth time, usapa will never get DOH at LCC. The position the West is in guarantees that.
....I swear....get out of this flying thing man......you gotta start writing for Leno of Dave your stuff us just to much.hahahahahaha
 
The 9th Circuit Court ruling

You lost, get over it. Time to move on to an industry leading contract for all Usairways pilots.


According to the "big names" in CLT......they have given up on an industry leading contract. That would be nice.

I don't think they can get an industry standard contract even if given the next five years. Look what they've accomplished so far....almost NOTHING!

Industry leading....yea right...but not Major Airline Industry. Maybe, let's see.........maybe, commuter airline industry! But I doubt that.
 
Jet jock1 said,

Sorry to spoil your party. I llive in the Napa Valley( since 84') ahh, where were you, own 38 acres and have an operating winery and label. Hey,give me youre address and I'll send you a bottle....on me and my measly 401k that's only been funded for 6 years. Hey, boy, hope you stay in shape and make it to retirement. Maybe then, you'll be able to compare asset value. Good luck with that




So your plan is to attempt to compare portfolio's? I dont think you really want to go there! I own a successfull business as well and without going into detail, about who I am and what it is I do, I can tell you that I dont need usair!! I dont much care for wine but my wife does so you can send her a bottle.

AWA320

Not comparing anything. If you reread your idiotic post, you're the one who opened this can of worms. I don't need this job any more than you do. I do it because I still enjoy flying.
 
about the only thing your good at it, younging, is name calling. Hope your career stays intact. You'll never have what I have. You want to start comparing assets, you go first but I guarantee you....you'll finish last. No wonder United is F/Upped
A laugh a minute.

I'll just take my welfare PBGC wages and my measly 550k 401k (and growing) down the road

You are the one who started the whole subject by "bragging" about your pathetic 401K. I seriously doubt you can win anything, except the "Lowest paid airline pilots of the industry" award. Enjoy LOA 93. You DOH pipe dream will blow up in your face in short order. Guaranteed.

Oh yes... and UA is sooooooo F/Upped. You can thank us in a few months for doing our part to raise the industry standard some more.
 
....I swear....get out of this flying thing man......you gotta start writing for Leno of Dave your stuff us just to much.hahahahahaha

I don't want to write for Leno or Dave,,,,, I want to be a big rock star,,,,airplanes are for losers who can't write songs like Bono.

Should have gotten a liberal arts degree, studied poetry, language, music, entertainment.

Instead I got this darn worthless rocket science degree, and learned to fly airplanes, what a mistake!
 
According to the "big names" in CLT......they have given up on an industry leading contract. That would be nice.

I don't think they can get an industry standard contract even if given the next five years. Look what they've accomplished so far....almost NOTHING!

Industry leading....yea right...but not Major Airline Industry. Maybe, let's see.........maybe, commuter airline industry! But I doubt that.
The company execs are ready, are you?
 
USAPA will be responsible at the exact instant its first contract is ratified by the member pilots. At that moment it will assume all the baggage. No sooner.

RR

Who is responsible for what happens between now and then?

If it takes 5 years to get a contract and pay raise who is to blame? If not USAPA then who? ALPA?

And why am I paying USAPA an agency fee if they are not the legal representative for USAirways pilots?
 
The 9th Circuit Court ruling

You lost, get over it. Time to move on to an industry leading contract for all Usairways pilots.

Thanks for posting the link to the 9th opinion. Have not read it in awhile.
Should have though. Will admit that labor law is a strange animal. Look
at the SECOND paragraph. I had never noticed it. The Chief Judge (or his clerk)
writes: The East Pilots, who were disastified with the SENIORITY INTEGRATION
PROPOSAL ALPA ARRIVED AT THROUGH THE UNION'S INTERNAL ARBITRATION,....

see it.......PROPOSAL.......and INTERNAL

Foot note 2 Plaintiff's abandoned their claim that USAPA is intentionally delaying
negotiation of a CBA.

So much for the dissent!!

The thorny question remark is in the foot note where the Court writes that
USAPA is at least as free to abandon NIC as APLA was.

Foot note 4 and 5 blow BB out of the water when he compares this to contract law. (See anticipatory repudiation FN 7)
that works in contract law. NOT LABOR LAW. Read footnote 4 and 5 and 7 again for yourself.

You boys better read this case again. Especially you BB.
It says a hell of a lot more that just

"NOT RIPE"

nicdoa
npjb
 
A laugh a minute.



You are the one who started the whole subject by "bragging" about your pathetic 401K. I seriously doubt you can win anything, except the "Lowest paid airline pilots of the industry" award. Enjoy LOA 93. You DOH pipe dream will blow up in your face in short order. Guaranteed.

Oh yes... and UA is sooooooo F/Upped. You can thank us in a few months for doing our part to raise the industry standard some more.

Hey you want to see something funny......Jetz and AWA320 took their little USAPA lovefest
over to the UAL/CON section and guess what..........not one single person responded in suppport
of their bile. You guys make Bagdag Bob look good.

NICDOA
NPJB
 
All the more reason for everyone to pull for LOA 93 going the pilots way. The company would then be more inclined and motivated to conclude a new contract, which could be structured to trade off some of the pay rate for across the board quality of life improvements.

No. I don't think so.

If the LOA 93 arbitration goes in favor of the pilots, it will only bring the east up to industry standard. We certainly aren't going to give up pay for anything that would drop us below standard again. If the arbitrator rewards LOA 84 pay rates, that simply raises the bar at the bargaining table. I think most of us on the east will be OK with those pay rates for several years (as there is an automatic 3% raise every year built in.) The quality of life issues which are admittedly bad can be dealt with after we retire. We are so accustomed to the LOA 93 working conditions that we are somewhat numb to it.

If the arbitrator rules against the pilots, pretty much everything is up for grabs except DOH. There will be a large exodus of 60+ year old pilots from the east who are hanging around to see if the LOA 93 grievance is successful with a chance to cash in for a few more years. Barring that, they will find a way to leave promptly.
 
Not comparing anything. If you reread your idiotic post, you're the one who opened this can of worms. I don't need this job any more than you do. I do it because I still enjoy flying.

Wow I can't believe that I have something in common with an east theif! Well you seem to have all this extra money why not buy yourself a kingair and forget this mess with usless air?? Idiotic?? Thats all you got? Hahaha you east thieves sure do a lot of name calling. :lol: :lol:

AWA320
 
Hey 320, these guys are a laugh a minute. From the tone of their spin I can tell they are scared of what's coming in 2011. Keep the pressure on!

Awesome business, by the way. Had several of the same in the family until recently, in Virgina. You'll have to pm me some details of your region.

Cheers!

Oh I know! I was strolling thru the Philly terminal yesterday and saw many staring at my red lanyard and my Cactus pilot badge backer and not one of these brave souls had the stones to say ANYTHING to my face. They have balls as big as mack trucks when they can hide behind a computer screen but in person they are PUSSYcats!!! 2011 will bring many things to them, mostly the NIC and no snapbacks. I will be rolling thru Philly again this afternoon and expect the same old PUSSYcat mentality

AWA320
 
Thanks for posting the link to the 9th opinion. Have not read it in awhile.
Should have though. Will admit that labor law is a strange animal. Look
at the SECOND paragraph. I had never noticed it. The Chief Judge (or his clerk)
writes: The East Pilots, who were disastified with the SENIORITY INTEGRATION
PROPOSAL ALPA ARRIVED AT THROUGH THE UNION'S INTERNAL ARBITRATION,....

see it.......PROPOSAL.......and INTERNAL

Foot note 2 Plaintiff's abandoned their claim that USAPA is intentionally delaying
negotiation of a CBA.

So much for the dissent!!

The thorny question remark is in the foot note where the Court writes that
USAPA is at least as free to abandon NIC as APLA was.

Foot note 4 and 5 blow BB out of the water when he compares this to contract law. (See anticipatory repudiation FN 7)
that works in contract law. NOT LABOR LAW. Read footnote 4 and 5 and 7 again for yourself.

You boys better read this case again. Especially you BB.
It says a hell of a lot more that just

"NOT RIPE"

nicdoa
npjb
Why is it that you and usapa always have to rely on footnotes to make your case? If is is so important and so central to the argument why is that not in the MAIN body of the document? Why would the ninth make it just a footnote to the case?

BTW in the presidents latest rant. Why does he not quote the ENTIRE sentence from the footnote instead of taking them out of context and lie to the membership?
 
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