US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Reed Richards]

Parker on CNBC today:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video=1724239251&play=1

RR

oops. Link now only takes you to the CNBC site. Just do a search using "Doug Parker" and you can see the video. Nothing earthshaking or new.

RR

 

[jetjok1]

Completely untrue and you have ZERO proof to back that up!! Like I have said all along, FEAR is whats driving you and keeping you at bottom tier!!! The count down to PBGC retirement has begun. The senior east pilots you've sentenced to welfare pbge wages will come to pass.

AWA320

Geez, I'm pulling down my "welfare PBGC wages" and I'm holding a Captain position flying nice trips. Are you getting closer to your PBGC wages?......Oh, right,....darn.....you don't have welfare PBGC wages coming your way.......Ouch........Maybe you can use your Superior hourly wage to pump up your 401k to achieve that better retirement. I'll just take my welfare PBGC wages and my measly 550k 401k (and growing) down the road so you can play catchup.........Oh..........you might not be old enough to have catchup capability...........another ouch!!!! bummer

 

[767jetz]

I'll just take my welfare PBGC wages and my measly 550k 401k (and growing) down the road so you can play catchup.........Oh..........you might not be old enough to have catchup capability...........another ouch!!!! bummer

550K? You act like that's a lot. You guys love to reference the glory days of making so much more than the west, yet that's all you've saved in your 401K? That's pathetic for an airline pilot approaching retirement. No wonder you guys living on LOA93 seem to think you're in good shape, considering your goals are so low. I have more than that in my B fund and have 24 more years to go. What makes you think the west guys won't make that up in their years left? With a real contract some of you east guys might actually be able to make up for years of lost time. Do you guys even realize what the industry standard retirement contributions by a legacy airline is these days? You should do your homework.

The AFO club is sinking the ship. And by the looks of the personal attacks around here it's obvious that your end game is nearing it's unsuccessful conclusion. The last few malcontents are throwing everything they got into the fight because they know the end is soon coming. The DOH campaign has been a turd in the water since day one. It will never happen, and 2011 will bring one big fall after another. Have your childish fun on this forum while you can. The west is lining up to not only rub your nose in the stink you have created, but will be looking for some serious damages when the dust settles.

Boo Hoo! So sad for you.

 

[Reed Richards]

Yep, give it a few days and you can count on an eastie admitting the obvious and here is today's latest! So, AOL is having a profound effect on the entire east pilot group- keeping you clowns on LOA93- time to send another check. God, you guys must hate us by now @@

Chill, the Addington lawsuit was a home run for you guys and gals, if indeed your goal was to prevent anyone getting a new contract and raise. I have no idea if that was your goal, but it worked. We will not get a contract until the Company is told to take a hike by Judge Silver, and then probably the Ninth.

My opinion is you would have all done better to all join your own union and pay dues. But I see the problem you have...even with ALPA you could only get about 2/3 of your fellow pilots to join the union..any union. But with even 1100 votes and participation at the BPR level and on Committees you could have really had some leverage. We will never know.

I don't hate you, really don't. You have your "usual suspects" but the real enemy was ALPA, that allowed the obscenity to occur. Who knows, maybe you will all win in the end. But the end is years away, and we have plenty of time...now closing in on 6 years and counting since the faux merger..and we are not even close to the point of being a unified group, much less with a T/A to vote on.

RR

 

[traderjake]

Why are you blaming that on USAPA? That was all ALPA's doing.

ALPA's been gone almost 3 years.

How many years from now will USAPA be resonsible for anything that happens here? 5? 10? 15?

 

[Reed Richards]

ALPA's been gone almost 3 years.

How many years from now will USAPA be resonsible for anything that happens here? 5? 10? 15?

Trader, I cannot give you a date or time..but a moment, an exact moment. USAPA will be responsible at the exact instant its first contract is ratified by the member pilots. At that moment it will assume all the baggage. No sooner.

RR

 

[BoeingBoy]

And the East pilots still won't accept any of the blame even though they ratify that contract...

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

And the East pilots still won't accept any of the blame even though they ratify that contract...

Jim

No old man. "Blame" is associated with an ALPA negotiated contract. The first USAPA one will simply be what it is, warts and all. With no outside organization looking out for only its own interests. The members will weigh the pros and cons and vote on the merits.

You are living the life of a pauper because your union could not even do its most basic duty..looking out for and managing your long earned retirement. Don't put your misplaced anger on the lap of USAPA. It is a hard road to hoe with all our ALPA history and abuse..but eventually we will get things back on track..no thanks to malcontented armchair traitors like yourself.

RR

 

[N924PS]

And the East pilots still won't accept any of the blame even though they ratify that contract...

Jim

Taking a page from Nostro's playbook, I will predict that it will be another 4-5 years before there is even a TA to ratify.

During that time period, the F/A's will have a T/A, reject it on the first pass, and get a good contract on the second go.

East and West pilots will continue on their seperate contracts with continued bottom of the barrel wages and work rules while their peers at the legacy airlines (and even some regionals) surpass them in every way. Many of the most vocal East posters will have NOTHING to show for the 3-8 years they will have spent trying to undo a just process. Not an upgrade, not a raise, maybe not even a block after a career on reserve. And most certainly not a DOH seniority list.

But they will certainly blame ALPA for all their woes, now and ad infinitum.

 

[BoeingBoy]

We will not get a contract until the Company is told to take a hike by Judge Silver, and then probably the Ninth.

I don't have a crystal ball, unlike of lot of the outhouse lawyers around here, but I don't see Judge Silver dismissing the DJ. Of the 3 options covered by the company's filing, the least likely is for the company to get blanket immunity. I just can't see a court effectively saying that the company can do whatever it wants and not face potential liability.

The next choice is more involved - can the company accept a DOH list and be immune to liability. That not only involves contract law (the TA and the agreement of the two pilot groups to go to arbitration) but also whether final and binding has any legal standing. I can't see the court effectively eliminating final and binding arbitration as a means of settling disputes.

The last option is the most cut and dry - must the company accept only the Nic. A ruling for this option satisfies contract law (both the TA and agreement to arbitrate) and upholds the concept of final and binding arbitration to settle disputes.

So I see it as option 3 having almost zero chance, option 2 maybe 10% and option 1 near 90%.

Jim

 

[AWA320]

I don't really understand. Should we be unhappy with our PBGC moneys? Every one of us moves a day closer to retirement at exactly the same rate. Even if the Pension Investigation is unsuccessful, each and every pilot with a PBGC retirement has something you don't have, and will never have. Like has been pointed out here many times..a lot of us have military pensions that kick in soon, and will also be drawing on PBGC at age 60 in addition to our slumdog wages. Most of us have also been socking away moneys in our 401k's since the early 90s.

Not the way I dreamed my career would turn out. But nowhere near as bad as you seem to want it to be for us. I will stick with a seniority based list. No upside at all to do otherwise.

RR

You see this is where you fall off the boat. I dont wish bad on you, you do that to yourselves! I have been putting money away in my 401k for years so when its time to retire wont have to live like I'm on welfare. I dont need the govn't pension you get as my 401 should look like a whose who on wall street. Help comes to those who help themselves my friend.

Not like you thought it would be huh? The change it!!

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

Where is the NIC AOL promised you? If you could you would but you can't so you not!! NIC is DOA and the sooner you get that the bette your life will be.

Lets see who wins this foot race! I already know but some like yourself have heads as hard as granite! Got the same chance a snowball has in hell...

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

No, it's because of the west and their frivolous lawsuits. USAPA is the Collective Bargaining Agent. AOL keeps suiing them to keep them from negotiating in accordance with their C&BLs.

Butter or parkay????? Still clueless as both

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

Geez, I'm pulling down my "welfare PBGC wages" and I'm holding a Captain position flying nice trips. Are you getting closer to your PBGC wages?......Oh, right,....darn.....you don't have welfare PBGC wages coming your way.......Ouch........Maybe you can use your Superior hourly wage to pump up your 401k to achieve that better retirement. I'll just take my welfare PBGC wages and my measly 550k 401k (and growing) down the road so you can play catchup.........Oh..........you might not be old enough to have catchup capability...........another ouch!!!! bummer

Is that all you have now is 550k?? Wow I have 385 now and 21yrs left so I think you are a bit short there old timer. However you dont need much to live in God forsaken Philly. I live on the coast with views of the ocean not stolen cars like you got there in the east! Keep saving, Oppps I forget youreout of time, you got one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peal!!

AWA320

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

It take more the ~15% though and certainly more than any single investor has. Remember - the institutional investors only want a ROI and as long as LCC is providing it they couldn't care less what Parker does. Considering that LCC doesn't own anything outright, fragmentation wouldn't pay off much. With the cross collateralizing of assets it's certainly possible that LCC is worth more than the sum of it's parts.

Jim

What assets need cross collaterizing? When I buy steak I don't ask for extra fat and want to be charged for it! No it isn't possible, DP was right on the mark about long term inst investment, around for a transaction(theres your ROI ) but no part of daily life! MM, JAMIE , JG, JJ!