US Pilots Labor Discussion

[oldiebutgoody]

Wow and you have the nerve to even open your trap after america's worst as you put it saved you sorry a sses form certain unemployment! The way we see it you should be kissing our feet that you even get a pay check!! Thats rich. Twice bankrupt and going out was the legacy of USLESS air!!!

AWA320

No, he was right.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

AWA... Up until 2003, the pilots who were vested (probably 100%) all had a defined benefit plan which would allow for them to have quite a tidy sum after their retirement. Most (if not all) did not realize that the company had the power to have their plan terminated (whether by a distress termination or by agreement by ALPA), and kick everyone to the curb... So they did not put away massive sums into a 401K or anticipate what they had would be taken away.

Regardless of how or why the retirement went away, that's a blow. I never had a retirement, but can certainly understand what you just described, it's human nature. I'm sure I would have gone a little lighter on contributions if I'd have had a retirement I was rightly counting on receiving.

 

[AWA320]

No, he was right.

About what butter or parkay? :blink:

AWA320

 

[HPearlyretiree]

So making a childish post and using profanity to call someone else childish is ok?

Grow up.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

So making a childish post and using profanity to call someone else childish is ok?

Grow up.

Spoken like a true westie.

 

[AWA320]

Spoken like a true westie.

No just someone else who recognizes cluelessness when they see it!

AWA320

 

[streaman]

What kind of retirement does the west pilots have, how much does it pay after you retire,do they match,how much can you expect to have it it for a average pilot on retirement. thank you

 

[luvthe9]

What a low life...

Once again irrefutable evidence that AWA was the ONLY place these low life's could get a job. AWA = Americas Worst Applicants.

I guess it is not really very surprising when you consider the types hired by AWA....

Boeing Driver

Thinking the same thing. Look at the spelling on most of the posts! Unbelievable. Continious ranting, little coherance. The water view must be somewhere we can't even begin to recognize. Probably a drainage canal in Oakland.....

 

[Black Swan]

I don't have a crystal ball, unlike of lot of the outhouse lawyers around here, but I don't see Judge Silver dismissing the DJ. Of the 3 options covered by the company's filing, the least likely is for the company to get blanket immunity. I just can't see a court effectively saying that the company can do whatever it wants and not face potential liability.

The next choice is more involved - can the company accept a DOH list and be immune to liability. That not only involves contract law (the TA and the agreement of the two pilot groups to go to arbitration) but also whether final and binding has any legal standing. I can't see the court effectively eliminating final and binding arbitration as a means of settling disputes.

The last option is the most cut and dry - must the company accept only the Nic. A ruling for this option satisfies contract law (both the TA and agreement to arbitrate) and upholds the concept of final and binding arbitration to settle disputes.

So I see it as option 3 having almost zero chance, option 2 maybe 10% and option 1 near 90%.

Jim

The court is not going to even delve into the company and the representiative entity on a first name basis. There is going to be a general explanation, again, that we on this board will not even begin to understand. A general explanation that will once more refer and defer to the 9th. Parker got it way before anybody else did. He flat out told the west pilots in his little get together. "This is for you guys to decide." The court is going to reference the 9th, and again, this thing is going to spin around because the west pilots and east pilots will not get it. It boils down to the fact that USAPA is the legitimate bargaining entity, seniority is negotiable, and USAPA is free to present the list they want. There is no damage until there is damage, and there will again, be a fight over what damage means. But there is NO damage, until a ratified contract is IN PLACE. ( Marty Harper took you on a massive ride on this one) The bottom line is USAPA needs to present Parker with the list they want, then SUE HIM, if he screws around with it. That is the best plan there is. The west needs protection, give it to them, and then let them sue if they so desire, and deal with that. It is understandable that the west has real problems with what has transpired. Both sides need to get together, whoever the west chooses, but they do have LEGITIMATE reason to be pissed, and something has to be worked out. The only way out that I see is LOS.

 

[CV580ETOPS]

The court is not going to even delve into the company and the representiative entity on a first name basis. There is going to be a general explanation, again, that we on this board will not even begin to understand. A general explanation that will once more refer and defer to the 9th. Parker got it way before anybody else did. He flat out told the west pilots in his little get together. "This is for you guys to decide." The court is going to reference the 9th, and again, this thing is going to spin around because the west pilots and east pilots will not get it. It boils down to the fact that USAPA is the legitimate bargaining entity, seniority is negotiable, and USAPA is free to present the list they want. There is no damage until there is damage, and there will again, be a fight over what damage means. But there is NO damage, until a ratified contract is IN PLACE. ( Marty Harper took you on a massive ride on this one) The bottom line is USAPA needs to present Parker with the list they want, then SUE HIM, if he screws around with it. That is the best plan there is. The west needs protection, give it to them, and then let them sue if they so desire, and deal with that. It is understandable that the west has real problems with what has transpired. Both sides need to get together, whoever the west chooses, but they do have LEGITIMATE reason to be pissed, and something has to be worked out. The only way out that I see is LOS.

Wrong. The only way out for me and many others is seperate ops till the last man on both seniority lists dies. This way i get the satisfaction of spending the rest of my time at this sorry excuse of an airline watching you and your fellow clowns earning nothing more than LOA 93 wages for the remainder of your careers.

cv

 

[Metroyet]

The court is not going to even delve into the company and the representiative entity on a first name basis. There is going to be a general explanation, again, that we on this board will not even begin to understand. A general explanation that will once more refer and defer to the 9th. Parker got it way before anybody else did. He flat out told the west pilots in his little get together. "This is for you guys to decide." The court is going to reference the 9th, and again, this thing is going to spin around because the west pilots and east pilots will not get it. It boils down to the fact that USAPA is the legitimate bargaining entity, seniority is negotiable, and USAPA is free to present the list they want. There is no damage until there is damage, and there will again, be a fight over what damage means. But there is NO damage, until a ratified contract is IN PLACE. ( Marty Harper took you on a massive ride on this one) The bottom line is USAPA needs to present Parker with the list they want, then SUE HIM, if he screws around with it. That is the best plan there is. The west needs protection, give it to them, and then let them sue if they so desire, and deal with that. It is understandable that the west has real problems with what has transpired. Both sides need to get together, whoever the west chooses, but they do have LEGITIMATE reason to be pissed, and something has to be worked out. The only way out that I see is LOS.

Prove it. It's all a steaming pile of Horse#### until you actually PROVE otherwise.

Good Luck SC>>>>>

 

[PullUp]

I was wondering where to look to see how that conference turns out. Any idea? Do they announce at the end of the day? Wait for weeks (or months) to keep everybody in suspense?

It's public record. One would think the info would be posted online in a timely manner, but the SC is certainly a weird duck when it comes to this stuff.

From what I've read, the results of the ceratori petitions are usually posted/advertised/announced on the next monday following the conference. So, look for the list to come out on the 10th.
Cheers.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The price of a house is also negotiable. But once the sales contract is signed, negotiations are over and contract law enters the picture. Just like seniority.

USAPA insured that there would be no "us" to decide on a compromise. What if the two sides can't reach agreement - who would be empowered to decide, another arbitrator? And why should the West think the East or USAPA would keep their word no if they didn't like the result?

The company has a valid question that the 9th didn't answer or even provide guidance for. Faced with having to choose what to do about seniority in a combined list, what are the companies rights and responsibilities. That type of question is not an unusual reason for asking for a judicial declaratory statement spelling out the company's legal rights and responsibilities. So as I said, I'm not at all sure that the court will completely dismiss the filing. Remember, the 9th didn't rule on the merits of the Addington trial so there is nothing the court could use to dismiss because of the 9th remand of Addington, despite all your and other's attempting to read the tea leaves to suit your desires.

Finally, LOS is very much like DOH. It would affect only the junior end of the east list and help the West hardly at all. It definitely wouldn't be the 9th "solution that does not do the harm the West fears".

I'll stick with my guess.

Jim

Oh, and my signature says what Parker said at the same crew news session as your "it's up to you to decide. He also wanted an undisputed list - something that's not likely ever to exist. The only other option is a list determined to be legal.

 

[jetjok1]

550K? You act like that's a lot. You guys love to reference the glory days of making so much more than the west, yet that's all you've saved in your 401K? That's pathetic for an airline pilot approaching retirement. No wonder you guys living on LOA93 seem to think you're in good shape, considering your goals are so low. I have more than that in my B fund and have 24 more years to go. What makes you think the west guys won't make that up in their years left? With a real contract some of you east guys might actually be able to make up for years of lost time. Do you guys even realize what the industry standard retirement contributions by a legacy airline is these days? You should do your homework.

The AFO club is sinking the ship. And by the looks of the personal attacks around here it's obvious that your end game is nearing it's unsuccessful conclusion. The last few malcontents are throwing everything they got into the fight because they know the end is soon coming. The DOH campaign has been a turd in the water since day one. It will never happen, and 2011 will bring one big fall after another. Have your childish fun on this forum while you can. The west is lining up to not only rub your nose in the stink you have created, but will be looking for some serious damages when the dust settles.

Boo Hoo! So sad for you.

You're too young to even know the history, therefore, your statement holds no value to me. We had a defined benefit plan when I got hired. What is that you ask? go look it up. I've only had a 401k since BK2 and the loss of our DBP. You know not such animal. You're lucky you're young. If I had a 401k since my hire date.... you'd be eating crow, younging. My personal value puts yours to shame without even asking. So take your B fund and your 24 years and have at it. Maybe you'll get to where I'm at..... but I doubt it. good luck anyway!!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

From what I've read, the results of the ceratori petitions are usually posted/advertised/announced on the next monday following the conference. So, look for the list to come out on the 10th.
Cheers.

As near as I can tell, the West petition isn't on the list scheduled for conference before March although it could always change I assume. The ones granted this week were filed as early as May 2010.

Jim