US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Boeing Driver]

Is that all you have now is 550k?? Wow I have 385 now and 21yrs left so I think you are a bit short there old timer. However you dont need much to live in God forsaken Philly. I live on the coast with views of the ocean not stolen cars like you got there in the east! Keep saving, Oppps I forget youreout of time, you got one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peal!!

AWA320

What a low life...

Once again irrefutable evidence that AWA was the ONLY place these low life's could get a job. AWA = Americas Worst Applicants.

I guess it is not really very surprising when you consider the types hired by AWA....

Boeing Driver

 

[nic4us]

Where is the NIC AOL promised you?

AOL did not promise the Nic. AOL promised to defend the rights of West pilots.

The company did not promise the Nic. The company asked for a fair integration in their letter of labor principles and the TA. The Nic meets those standards.

The only group that promised the West pilots the Nic was the east pilots, who now renege and violate the rights AOL has promised to defend.

 

[Zone5]

Today is the day that the Addington petition for certiorari to the US Supreme Court is scheduled to be placed onto their regular schedule for conference review.

We shall see........

seajay

 

[BoeingBoy]

What assets need cross collaterizing? When I buy steak I don't ask for extra fat and want to be charged for it! No it isn't possible, DP was right on the mark about long term inst investment, around for a transaction(theres your ROI ) but no part of daily life! MM, JAMIE , JG, JJ!

You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of cross collateraizing - it's the same asset (the steak) being used as collateral for more than one loan. Of course the lenders would have 1st, 2nd or 3rd priority of repayment in a liquidation or default. Things like the slots, owned airplanes for EETC's and also for loans. Instead of your steak example, it like buying a car and using it as collateral for the car loan and also a personal loan. So the car may not be worth the sum of the two loans. It started in BK where everything of any value was pledged as collateral for the ATSB loans and for additional loans. Of course, the 2nd or 3rd lender has to decide what the changes of liquidation or default are and balance that with the interest rate they can get before they decide to accept something for collateral that already has a loan on the same collateral.

There are a couple of long-term institutional investors who still hold stock. But there have been a lot more who took their short term profits or sold to cut their loses - if you watch the SEC statements filed by owners of more than 5% there has been on average about 3-4 transactions per year where one institutional investor sells and another buys. Institutional investors usually vote their shares as the company recommends and as investors they can't force management to do anything but replace board members to show their displeasure, so they'd have to get enough institutional investors to vote a replacement board in to have any control over what the company does. I haven't added them up, but the two largest institutional investors hold less than 25% of the stock so it would take 5 or more voting together to control the board.

Jim

 

[Watching The Animals]

No old man. "Blame" is associated with an ALPA negotiated contract. The first USAPA one will simply be what it is, warts and all. With no outside organization looking out for only its own interests. The members will weigh the pros and cons and vote on the merits.

You are living the life of a pauper because your union could not even do its most basic duty..looking out for and managing your long earned retirement. Don't put your misplaced anger on the lap of USAPA. It is a hard road to hoe with all our ALPA history and abuse..but eventually we will get things back on track..no thanks to malcontented armchair traitors like yourself.

RR

You must be kidding its not ALPA that managed the long earned retirement you lost. Your retirement was never managed by ALPA contract enforcement yes managing the money not even close. There are some other unions that do manage their own retirement plans such as the Teamsters but only under the Master freight agreement. Those benefits have also been reduced and changed over the last several years by the union and not the member companies that fall under the contract i.e. Roadway, Yellow now merged and ABF. Rest assured USAPA will never be in charge of administering a retirement program for any pilot group and will be extremely lucky to negotiate a contract that has matching 401(k) benefits the way they are going.

I personally think they should have forced all the legacy carriers to honor their pension plans during and after their restructuring. If there was no funds available sell the assets until you meet the obligation, can't raise the funds liquidate oh USAir was just about to.

In case you haven't been paying attention the airline employee specifically pilots are not the first work group to lose their pensions. The coal miners, steelworkers, railroad personnel, truckers and don't forget about the auto workers reduction in pension benefits just last year. It's a long list of failures to the American worker and a lot of management types as well. I'm not sure if it got much press but American canceled the insurance and retirement benefits for its retirees not under contract last year.

The point is ALPA is certainly not solely at fault for the loss of your pension or anyone else's. ALPA has done a terrible job in the last 15 years but they're still hands-down a better choice than USAPA.

 

[nevergiveup]

You must be kidding its not ALPA that managed the long earned retirement you lost. Your retirement was never managed by ALPA contract enforcement yes managing the money not even close. There are some other unions that do manage their own retirement plans such as the Teamsters but only under the Master freight agreement. Those benefits have also been reduced and changed over the last several years by the union and not the member companies that fall under the contract i.e. Roadway, Yellow now merged and ABF. Rest assured USAPA will never be in charge of administering a retirement program for any pilot group and will be extremely lucky to negotiate a contract that has matching 401(k) benefits the way they are going.

I personally think they should have forced all the legacy carriers to honor their pension plans during and after their restructuring. If there was no funds available sell the assets until you meet the obligation, can't raise the funds liquidate oh USAir was just about to.

In case you haven't been paying attention the airline employee specifically pilots are not the first work group to lose their pensions. The coal miners, steelworkers, railroad personnel, truckers and don't forget about the auto workers reduction in pension benefits just last year. It's a long list of failures to the American worker and a lot of management types as well. I'm not sure if it got much press but American canceled the insurance and retirement benefits for its retirees not under contract last year.

The point is ALPA is certainly not solely at fault for the loss of your pension or anyone else's. ALPA has done a terrible job in the last 15 years but they're still hands-down a better choice than USAPA.

Go RJ...go!

 

[LSS]

Is that all you have now is 550k?? Wow I have 385 now and 21yrs left so I think you are a bit short there old timer. However you dont need much to live in God forsaken Philly. I live on the coast with views of the ocean not stolen cars like you got there in the east! Keep saving, Oppps I forget youreout of time, you got one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peal!!

AWA320

AWA... Up until 2003, the pilots who were vested (probably 100%) all had a defined benefit plan which would allow for them to have quite a tidy sum after their retirement. Most (if not all) did not realize that the company had the power to have their plan terminated (whether by a distress termination or by agreement by ALPA), and kick everyone to the curb... So they did not put away massive sums into a 401K or anticipate what they had would be taken away.

 

[nycbusdriver]

AWA... Up until 2003, the pilots who were vested (probably 100%) all had a defined benefit plan which would allow for them to have quite a tidy sum after their retirement. Most (if not all) did not realize that the company had the power to have their plan terminated (whether by a distress termination or by agreement by ALPA), and kick everyone to the curb... So they did not put away massive sums into a 401K or anticipate what they had would be taken away.

Not only that, but because of that "generous" defined benefit plan, we were all precluded from making tax-free contributions to an IRA for all those years. Once the "generous" DB plan went away, there was no recouping that tax advantage we were denied.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Today is the day that the Addington petition for certiorari to the US Supreme Court is scheduled to be placed onto their regular schedule for conference review.

We shall see........

seajay

I was wondering where to look to see how that conference turns out. Any idea? Do they announce at the end of the day? Wait for weeks (or months) to keep everybody in suspense?

It's public record. One would think the info would be posted online in a timely manner, but the SC is certainly a weird duck when it comes to this stuff.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I refer you AGAIN to the September CLT crew news where DP is asked why he would WANT a joint contract if there are only $40 million in synergies left and a pilot contract would cost a MINIMUM of $120 million. Caught completely off guard, his only response was, "because it's the right thing to do".

For WHO? Why wasn't pay parity "the right thing to do" among other things. Go ahead, keep your head in the sand, be a management mouthpiece, or pull it out and smell the coffee. Management DOES NOT WANT a contract.

Driver <_<

Although caught off guard, he wasn't necessarily being truthful.

He actually DOES want a combined contract at some point. Right now, there's no likely suitor out there to purchase us (and make him very rich and/or a very powerful airline chief.)

He doesn't want it because it's the right thing; he will go after it when it's the lucrative thing.

 

[fodase]

I was wondering where to look to see how that conference turns out. Any idea? Do they announce at the end of the day? Wait for weeks (or months) to keep everybody in suspense?

It's public record. One would think the info would be posted online in a timely manner, but the SC is certainly a weird duck when it comes to this stuff.

It will be posted on scotus website monday at noon. It still is a long shot, the odds went from 7000-1 to 250-1.

 

[Zone5]

I was wondering where to look to see how that conference turns out. Any idea? Do they announce at the end of the day? Wait for weeks (or months) to keep everybody in suspense?

It's public record. One would think the info would be posted online in a timely manner, but the SC is certainly a weird duck when it comes to this stuff.

Here is the link: http://www.scotusblog.com/

"The Court may issue orders granting certiorari from the January 7 Conference on the afternoon of the 7th. We will provide an update as soon as it is available. The Court will issue the remainder of its orders, and resume oral arguments, on Monday, January 10."

Looks like Monday at the latest!

seajay

 

[Zone5]

Don't know if this is all inclusive, but it appears, at least at this point, that the issue of interest to USAirways pilots was NOT granted.

seajay

..........................................................................................................................................................................


(ORDER LIST: 562 U.S.)


FRIDAY, JANUARY 7, 2011


CERTIORARI GRANTED

09-1403 ERICA P. JOHN FUND, INC. V. HALLIBURTON CO., ET AL.
The petition for a writ of certiorari is granted.
10-209 LAFLER, BLAINE V. COOPER, ANTHONY
10-444 MISSOURI V. FRYE, GALIN E.
The motions of respondents for leave to proceed in forma
pauperis are granted. The petitions for writs of certiorari
are granted. In addition to the Questions presented by the
petitions the parties are directed to brief and argue the
following question: "What remedy, if any, should be provided
for ineffective assistance of counsel during plea bargain
negotiations if the defendant was later convicted and sentenced
pursuant to constitutionally adequate procedures?"
10-382 UNITED STATES V. JICARILLA APACHE NATION
The petition for a writ of certiorari is granted. Justice
Kagan took no part in the consideration or decision of this
petition.
10-568 NEVADA COMMISSION ON ETHICS V. CARRIGAN, MICHAEL A.
10-779 SORRELL, ATT'Y GEN. OF VT V. IMS HEALTH INC., ET AL.
The petitions for writs of certiorari are granted.
10-5258 McNEILL, CLIFTON T. V. UNITED STATES
The motion of petitioner for leave to proceed in forma
pauperis and the petition for a writ of certiorari are granted.

 

[Zone5]

Here is the link to the details regarding the certiorari granted in seven new cases today.

http://www.scotusblog.com/2011/01/details-on-this-afternoons-grants/



seajay

 

[AWA320]

What a low life...

Once again irrefutable evidence that AWA was the ONLY place these low life's could get a job. AWA = Americas Worst Applicants.

I guess it is not really very surprising when you consider the types hired by AWA....

Boeing Driver

Wow and you have the nerve to even open your trap after america's worst as you put it saved you sorry a sses form certain unemployment! The way we see it you should be kissing our feet that you even get a pay check!! Thats rich. Twice bankrupt and going out was the legacy of USLESS air!!!

AWA320