US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Cleardirect: "Anyone want to make a prediction when judge Silver wil rule?

My estimate is she will release her final opinion June 25th."

Hmmm...was it not also your earlier "estimate" that "the seniority fight" would be over by last month? Patience Grasshopper, what will be, will be....or not.

Clear: "She will tell the company they don't have to use the Nicolau but they will get sued if they don't and will lose."

Hmmm..."will get sued if they don't and will lose"...? Interesting. I wasn't aware that any court rulings included input from clairvoyants......

Judge silver may well have ruled in April except for usapa asking for more delay and one last desperate filing in March.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Hmmm..."will get sued if they don't and will lose"...? Interesting. I wasn't aware that any court rulings included input from clairvoyants......

Guess you missed the ruling from the 9th Circuit where the majority justices expressed an opinion that a NIC inclusive contract wouldn't pass even though there was never a vote to make such a determination. So there's two judges who have expressed some clairvoyance, or at least an attempt at it.

 

[EastUS1]

cleardirect: "Judge silver may well have ruled in April except for usapa asking for more delay and one last desperate filing in March."

Fyi: "may well have" means precious little in life. Perhaps your future "estimates" should take into account at least a "few" more variables.....

 

[EastUS1]

Callawaygolf: "So there's two judges who have expressed some clairvoyance, or at least an attempt at it." Point taken. Now show me one that guarantees the outcome of any potential lawsuit.

 

[Res Judicata]

[background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]There is no doubt the east will continue to stamp their feet, hold their breath, and cry but the fight will be over. Tantrums will continue but they will be totally impotent.[/background]

USTUPID is totally impotent. The fact that Parker couldn't be bothered to send them so much as a text message that they closed contract talks with 55k employees of ANOTHER airline ought to be proof enough. The April timeline was a best guess from the Lawyers...as always, they cautioned it could take longer. I have to think that the Merger Mess may kick things into gear a little bit. Maybe not. I also believe that the Federal courts don't really put this too high on the priority list. I know I wouldn't if I had death penalty cases to deal with every day. So what if some Idiots on the East coast want to commit financial suicide for absolutely no reason what so ever for year after year? Go ahead. But then again, If I was Silver I would have tossed this whole thing out and told Parker in no uncertain terms that I the Courts aren't here to help you run your company. He knows what he has to do. He always has...from day 1. The proof is in the Record. He just is either a coward or a cold opportunist with no moral compass. I used to respect the guy on some level, now I'll never forget the fact that he refused to Man Up and willfully shirked his leadership responsibilities enabling and tacitly approving of, USCABA to terrorize the West unchecked.

In the end it wont matter much, USCABA is nothing but organized crime and the Law will eventually crush them with or without AA.

 

[EastUS1]

Res: "The fact that Parker couldn't be bothered to send them so much as a text message that they closed contract talks with 55k employees of ANOTHER airline ought to be proof enough." Indeed....It's a good thing for all concerned that the AOL lawyers were talking to the APA though. One can have no possible doubt that you guys have it all under control.

Btw; what memo and info did you get from Parker? What "promises" from the APA were written up for you? Seriously; save all any needless speculation and just tell us what's "really" going on.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Callawaygolf: "So there's two judges who have expressed some clairvoyance, or at least an attempt at it." Point taken. Now show me one that guarantees the outcome of any potential lawsuit.

Isn't that what a Declaratory Judgement matter is all about? A DJ asks a court to provide a judgement based on what may or will happen if the other party pursues a certain course of action. In this case if Silver declares a deviation from the NIC to be a DFR/collusion, then she is telling Management what then need to know to avoid a future lawsuit from AOL. That is not clairvoyance but a judgement in advance of actual violation of the law.

 

[Move2CLT]

It's going to be big, buy your stock now. They are working on a new line for spring 2013. Larry the Cable Guy: The tattered and stained collection.

Glad to brighten your day. Off to my other runways in Paris and Milan........just a little structural reinforcement and we are good to go!

Don't forget the Australian tuck.

I hear it's all the rage.

 

[EastUS1]

"....if Silver declares a deviation from the NIC to be a DFR/collusion..." That would seemingly fly in the face of what's been already addressed by the 9th, who's comments indicate otherwise, but...only time will tell how all this mess will go.

 

[cleardirect]

cleardirect: "Judge silver may well have ruled in April except for usapa asking for more delay and one last desperate filing in March."

Fyi: "may well have" means precious little in life. Perhaps your future "estimates" should take into account at least a "few" more variables.....

Yes it was an estimate. But it is awfully difficult to account for the variable of crazy people. usapa and east pilots have done things that no rational person would have ever thought of let along done.

 

[cleardirect]

"....if Silver declares a deviation from the NIC to be a DFR/collusion..." That would seemingly fly in the face of what's been already addressed by the 9th, who's comments indicate otherwise, but...only time will tell how all this mess will go.

Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if that proposal is not the Nicolau Award

A jury has already found usapa guilty of DFR by not using the Nicolau. The ninth circuit said usapa MIGHT find a seniority list that is not the Nicolau IF it does not cause the harm the west fears. Anything other than the Nicolau harms the west.

So Judge Silver can say with certainty that IF the company uses anything other than the Nicolau in her opinion would harm the west and be a DFR. Follows the ninth's opinion of not ripe. As soon as usapa got something other than the nicolau passed it would be ripe and it would harm the west.

But the APA majority is not going to get involved with that DFR danger.

 

[EastUS1]

cleardirect: "Yes it was an estimate. But it is awfully difficult to account for the variable of crazy people. usapa and east pilots have done things that no rational person would have ever thought of let along done."

In your "estimation" that is, which only goes to further my point that your "estimates" would be well served by expanding your "clearly" and "directly", rather limited notions of what's routinely possible in this "Best of all possible worlds" A gentle suggestion would be to begin by making far less assumptions on what constitutes "rational" to any others than yourself. The world's most significant nations hardly support vast military machines because we all "get along", or can even agree on what seems most very basic to life at times. Our species, imo, is barely out of the evolutionary cradle, and countless years yet away from any semblance of becoming "rational"....so very little serves to surprise.

"Anything other than the Nicolau harms the west." That statement represents nothing more than a leap of faith, and hardly constitutes any legal argument.

 

[CallawayGolf]

"....if Silver declares a deviation from the NIC to be a DFR/collusion..." That would seemingly fly in the face of what's been already addressed by the 9th, who's comments indicate otherwise, but...only time will tell how all this mess will go.

If that were the case then Silver would have granted USAPA's MTD. The 9th said the DFR was not ripe until there is a ratified CBA. They also referenced not making any ruling on the thorny issue of the merits of a NON-NIC DFR. What the parties did subsequent to that ruling led to the Company filing a DJ suit against both USAPA and AOL so as to put this issue to rest and hopefully move forward with JCBA discussions. With a previous DFR violation already rendered on the merits in Wake's courtroom and both Company attorneys and AOL claiming USAPA would violate the TA (a collective bargaining agreement under the RLA) if a NON-NIC list is used, Silver would have to ignore the preponderance of evidence to make a ruling for Count 2 in the Company's prayer for relief.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

If that were the case then Silver would have granted USAPA's MTD. The 9th said the DFR was not ripe until there is a ratified CBA. They also referenced not making any ruling on the thorny issue of the merits of a NON-NIC DFR. What the parties did subsequent to that ruling led to the Company filing a DJ suit against both USAPA and AOL so as to put this issue to rest and hopefully move forward with JCBA discussions. With a previous DFR violation already rendered on the merits in Wake's courtroom and both Company attorneys and AOL claiming USAPA would violate the TA (a collective bargaining agreement under the RLA) if a NON-NIC list is used, Silver would have to ignore the preponderance of evidence to make a ruling for Count 2 in the Company's prayer for relief.

Sorry, sir. My neighbor, a 9th Circuit judge, told me that you are in fantasy land. But, as we on the west (PSA) advocate, go with what makes you feel good.

 

[Res Judicata]

I see the CAL Scab James Ray isn't allowing the PHX reps to communicate with their pilots without his own personal censorship. Big surprise. Of course CLT is free to send out insane updates filled with wild, unfounded conspiracy theories denigrating the new leadership. That's fine. But honest, factual communications can't be allowed.

Oh well, These scab MF'ers days are numbered...in more ways than one. Karma will always win in the end.