traderjake
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He's waiting for luvthe9 to help him move.
US Pilots Labor Discussion
- Thread starter Richard
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And what keeps him from CLT? Is it the TA? So why is the TA valid in the requirement of a single contract, yet not valid on the Nic.? I would love for one of you easties to answer that.
Jim, there are only 3 official seniority lists on the property. The East list, the West list and 3rd list new-hires... That is undisputed by either side. The Judge is going to decide if the NIC must be used in a joint contract between US Airways and USAPA whenever a joint contract is TA'ed... That is the only way for the NIC to become the official list. As you mention the transition agreement, it defines what specifically MUST happen for the NIC to be used. If those specific conditions are never met, how can the list become official?
BoeingBoy
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You're using the fallacious "it hasn't been implemented so it doesn't exist" argument? Why did USAPA file the LOA 93 pay grievance then - the "snapback" hadn't been implemented so didn't exist...
When will the easties realize that they don't get to pick and choose what rules apply when - going back to LOA 84 pay existed but wasn't implemented so file a grievance, but Nic doesn't exist because it hasn't been implemented. Keep grasping at those straws...
Jim
traderjake
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Not true.
The Nicolau award is the seniority list per the TA unless it is replaced by another in a ratified contract.
The fact that's it's not being used does not mean it doesn't exist.
Black Swan
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You are mostly correct. The NICOLAU has to be voted in by USAPA members to be the list. But it is not a legal requirement for USAPA to use it, as the 9 th made clear. The only requirement is no harm to the West. Harm and the Nic are not linked at all. The final product must not harm. Harm must be successfully quantified by anyone and proved in a court of law.
luvthe9
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No, it's true. "unless it is replaced by another in a ratified contract". That's coming soon. No NIC.
BoeingBoy
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You're also confusing official and implemented. A combined list can be official but not implemented, it just can't be implemented until it's official. Both the union (ALPA at the time) and the company agreed to it and that made it official. It just can't be implemented until there's a joint contract.
Jim
1. How did you determine that you have been around commercial aviation longer than I, and I have no disrepect for experience, just people who feel entitled due to their being hired at an airline that I particularly chose never to even attempt to find employment with.
2. You would have to help me out with the Wargocki comment. I know a Wargocki who was a young AWA pilot furloughed out of seniority who then went to Alliegent. Is that who you are taliking about, and while we are at it, two pilots apply for a job at a new airline that is going to fly md-80s. Do they hire the 58 year old USAirways furloughee who spent a career in F28 and 737, or the 38 year old Wargocki who is typed in the MD-80 with 3000hrs PIC? I would say wargocki is the more experienced pilot for the job.
3. The "lunacy" of Nicolau? Again, you do not deserve other peoples jobs, just because you are older or more experienced. Further, as a former USAir pilot, you are no more entitled to position at LCC than a former AWA pilot, particularly the vast majority of which are likely more experienced than your usapa commrades who have vastly less LOS.
BoeingBoy
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You are almost entirely wrong. The Nic doesn't have to be voted in by anybody - it's already there. There is absolutely no ratification vote on the Nic. A CONTRACT has to be voted in (unless the US pilots are just included in the APA negotiated contract) for the Nic to be used. The 9th also made it clear that USAPA's seniority proposal (as opposed to the accepted Nic) did in fact harm the west.
Jim
traderjake
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I'm 100% correct.
The NIC is the one and only certified seniority list per the TA unless it is replaced by another that does not harm the West.
traderjake
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Didn't you hear?
Luvthe9, Claxon, and Black Swan are taking Mov2CLT to dinner.
I think they said ChuckE.Cheese's.
Nope, completely false, absolutely no requirement in the TA for membership approval of the integrated seniority list. None whatsoever, and the complete opposite is true in fact. The arbitration award is "final and binding". That is in the TA.
Further, in all the discussion we have recently had regarding the 9th, you have failed to mention what the 9th said about the Nic and final and binding arbitration, so I will remind you.
"3We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the
Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA."
In other word, the 9th specifically said they are not making a determination of if usapa has to use the Nic or not. All the supporting talk in the opinion is merely saying usapa "could" use something non-Nic..that the West pilots are okay with, therefore the West would not sue. The 9th did not green light DOH, DOH +C&Rs, the usapa constitution, or any other hair brained, "we will trade seniority for a cost neutral contract" scheme the little lawyer thought up.
Again, in its entirety, the 9ths opinion is a warning for usapa...either represent your pilots or get sued and you will likely lose. Your pilots entered into a binding arbitration, and unless everybody agrees to forego that arbitration, you lose.
luvthe9
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As always your late to the game, if you were paying attention Move would like to go to KFC,he likes the extra crispy.
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