US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Sorry JUNEBUG, no transition agreemeent between east and west. Geeeez!!!!

Sorry. Merger, single contract, seniority integration, APA.

It is not going to be an agreement between east, west and APA. You guys wanted single carrier status you got it. usapa is the representative. Both our contracts go away when we move to the new APA contract. So any fences will apply to US Airways pilots not east or west.

Geeeez! How is it that you "experienced" airline pilots don't understand basic stuff?

 

[luvthe9]

Of course the APA is neutral in the LCC seniority matter. They have no DFR towards LCC pilots.

If the APA were to be the surviving union in an LCC/AMR merger, and of course everyone would expect that to be the case, the APA would represent the pilots who entered into a binding arbitration agreement and drop the neutrality in a heartbeat to protect itself from the "unquestionably ripe DFR" that would await them for failing to adhear to an arbitration result from members within its ranks.

.

So USAPA will be gone, I guess you will be suing the APA right?

 

[fodase]

So USAPA will be gone, I guess you will be suing the APA right?

You think they will have a problem using the correct list after uasapy is gone to avoid litigation?

 

[Metroyet]

So USAPA will be gone, I guess you will be suing the APA right?

Nope. You will. Best of luck! Hire $esham again...I hear he has a lot of free time these days.

 

[EastUS1]

Your false premise that does nothing but ASSUME more experience, hints of your over the top sense of entitlement.

You've been around commercial aviation for a while now, which I respect. I've been around it longer, which you apparently do not respect. There's no "false premise" nor any "over the top sense of entitlement" involved here. Explain your Wargocki boy and his incredible attitude, much less any/all such utterly astounding notions of entitlement. My beliefs are easily understood and very basic here. Any person who's worked more than myself is deserving of my respect for doing so. Anyone that has given more of their time in service should be placed ahead of others with less, within any given class and craft....Period!...Pretty basic stuff really.

The resulting chaos, and the enmity so evident between east-west/west-east should afford all an easy estimation of what inevitably happens, whenever such extreme distortions of the natural order of things occur, via lunacy like nic's.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So USAPA will be gone, I guess you will be suing the APA right?

There will likely be no need since the Nic is the only officially accepted integrated seniority list for US. Much like an LOA, once the union proposed the Nic and the company accepted it, the Nic became the only possible integrated list (thanks to USAPA's STS application). A LOA can be later incorporated into the underlying contract or never incorporated into the underlying contract - it's still binding on all the parties. Just like the Nic, so you can forget all about ratification votes, etc. They only matter for the timing of when the Nic can be used, as per the LOA called the transition agreement.

Now, if USAPA is stupid enough (and from past actions it appears they are) to submit some other list or lists for any US/AA merger that just means USAPA is still around to be sued for DFR...

Jim

 

[high*flyer]

There will likely be no need since the Nic is the only officially accepted integrated seniority list for US. Much like an LOA, once the union proposed the Nic and the company accepted it, the Nic became the only possible integrated list (thanks to USAPA's STS application). A LOA can be later incorporated into the underlying contract or never incorporated into the underlying contract - it's still binding on all the parties. Just like the Nic, so you can forget all about ratification votes, etc. They only matter for the timing of when the Nic can be used, as per the LOA called the transition agreement.

Now, if USAPA is stupid enough (and from past actions it appears they are) to submit some other list or lists for any US/AA merger that just means USAPA is still around to be sued for DFR...

Jim


Until the issue is decided in the courts, what list could they possibly present?

 

[luvn737s]

Show me my signature on any such "agreement" I supposedly made. What I've promised, and will adhere to, is NEVER voting for anything nic inclusive. That promise will be kept.

For someone who seems so committed to their loyalty to the "squadron" you sure have a lot of "I"s in there. Your little cabal was represented by ALPA, to whom you granted the authority to speak or vote on your behalf. If there was such agita over ALPA, why couldn't your little minority of dissenters reach escape velocity from ALPA?

"I never signed"? Sorry pal, you did and tried to "time the market" so as to reap the greatest benefit from ALPA and the emotions of your fellow unstable airmen, but alas as so often happens, you failed.

Personally, I am disappointed that this mess is being cleaned up by the APA. Bradford and his ilk should be held accountable for their irresponsibility.

Wake me up when an east pilot's promise to keep a promise is actually proven to been kept.

 

[fodase]

Until the issue is decided in the courts, what list could they possibly present?

Is there a list that exists and has been accepted in writing and inherited by usapa?

 

[Claxon]

There will likely be no need since the Nic is the only officially accepted integrated seniority list for US. Much like an LOA, once the union proposed the Nic and the company accepted it, the Nic became the only possible integrated list (thanks to USAPA's STS application). A LOA can be later incorporated into the underlying contract or never incorporated into the underlying contract - it's still binding on all the parties. Just like the Nic, so you can forget all about ratification votes, etc. They only matter for the timing of when the Nic can be used, as per the LOA called the transition agreement.

Now, if USAPA is stupid enough (and from past actions it appears they are) to submit some other list or lists for any US/AA merger that just means USAPA is still around to be sued for DFR...

Jim

Amazingly stupid of the westerners to blindly enter a merger divided. There is now a western list with no wide bodies, an eastern group with wide bodies and APA wit wide bodies. There is no joined list or contract. That is where it will start. The Nic list never came true. What a gross western miscalculation. It takes a contract to make the fairy tale come true.

 

[Claxon]

The APA isn't worried about a suit. They know the western entitled sue everyone.

 

[luvthe9]

There will likely be no need since the Nic is the only officially accepted integrated seniority list for US. Much like an LOA, once the union proposed the Nic and the company accepted it, the Nic became the only possible integrated list (thanks to USAPA's STS application). A LOA can be later incorporated into the underlying contract or never incorporated into the underlying contract - it's still binding on all the parties. Just like the Nic, so you can forget all about ratification votes, etc. They only matter for the timing of when the Nic can be used, as per the LOA called the transition agreement.

Now, if USAPA is stupid enough (and from past actions it appears they are) to submit some other list or lists for any US/AA merger that just means USAPA is still around to be sued for DFR...

Jim

So, I guess there will be no NIC then.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Until the issue is decided in the courts, what list could they possibly present?

If USAPA wants to avoid an "unquestionably ripe" DFR it'd be the Nic list, which it can do since the C&B/L's say that DOH is only a goal and not mandatory. Besides, USAPA's argument is that it's Constitution written in 2008 trumps a seniority integration process concluded in 2007. With logic like that, USAPA should have put $250,000 pay scales, a DB retirement plan, one hour of pay for every hour away from base, 4 months of vacation, top of the line free medical, etc in it's Constitution and claimed that that trumped the contract too. So see how silly the "but the Constitution says" argument is...

Of course, Judge Silver may surprise everyone (except the hard core USAPians) and rule that USAPA can present and the company can accept any list of USAPA's choosing - age, height, weight, alphabetical, etc based - but the odds are slim with two of the three parties in the DJ suit are arguing and contract law saying that the Nic is it.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Anyone that has given more of their time in service should be placed ahead of others with less, within any given class and craft....Period!...Pretty basic stuff really.

The arbitrators of the last four pilot seniority arbitrations say you're wrong.

 

[high*flyer]

Is there a list that exists and has been accepted in writing and inherited by usapa?

Is move2clt in Charlotte?