US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Latest proposal on the USAPA desk, APA furloughed to get slots vacated by USEAST, WEST ATTRITION in 7 year fence reverting to AA US DOH at end of 7 years,! Emphasis language on straight DOH, no slotting! MM! BPR! KNOWS!

Latest reply from the parties with their feet on the usapa desk.

"um...who are you?....and what is a usapa??"

 

[nic4us]

Latest proposal on the USAPA desk, APA furloughed to get slots vacated by USEAST, WEST ATTRITION in 7 year fence reverting to AA US DOH at end of 7 years,! Emphasis language on straight DOH, no slotting! MM! BPR! KNOWS!

Actually, I hope you are right MM.

That proposal will go in the same round file the company put the usapa DOH proposal.

The response will be, thanks for your input, you are dismissed.

And by dismissed we mean.....for good!

 

[traderjake]

Latest proposal on the USAPA desk, APA furloughed to get slots vacated by USEAST, WEST ATTRITION in 7 year fence reverting to AA US DOH at end of 7 years,! Emphasis language on straight DOH, no slotting! MM! BPR! KNOWS!

I'm sure it will get the same consideration given to USAPA's DOH seniority list.

 

[767one]

So why is he so worried about the Nic and what happens here?

He should be fishing.

I'm not worried about the Nic. but I'm still interested and concerned about what happens here. I'll get back to the fishing when I get back from DUB. They bought so many trips I had to fly a couple in a row to stay landing qualified. After this trip they can start buying the trips again because I'll be good until early July.

 

[767one]

Swan,

In regards to this and the previous post addressed to me.

I totally understand the 9ths opinion. I completely get the ramifications of the opinion.

But, a couple of things. The 9th made conflicting statements in their dicta, and the biggest ones you quoted above.

First they say, a union does not have to effect a policy for it to be a DFR, the mere promotion of that policy could be a DFR, (and in this case is exactly what usapa was found guilty of by jurty verdict ).....but usapa has not effected the policy yet??? so case dismissed??? That is a conflicting statement that does not address the verdict.

Second, they point out the deference in regards to "internal union matters" yet ignore that this internal matter was resolved by binding arbitration and never even mention that fact. They did not want to make a statement that, hey a uniion can just ignore arbitrations, or arbitrations are meaningless in the context of unions for obvious reason, so...they just ignored the facts. They called the Nic.."the West's preferred method" or some BS like that, not the result of arbitration etc..


Here is what I learned from this BS. The court system in this country has very little to do with the dispensing of justice, and everything to do with self promotion, running a legal industry of lawyer and judge employment, which falls entirely along political lines. Wake and Bybee (both republican apointees side with contract law and arbitration) Tashima and the other affirmative action judge (both Democratic appointees side with labor and unions rights).

So, go ahead and make their day and continue the reneging whining til your hearts content. But, the Nic is and will remain the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. Just no getting around that, and no getting around the fact that any future players are not going to waste their money on your temper tantrum.

PS. your cordial post was reciprocated in kind.

 

[767one]

I agree with everything in your paragraph beginning with "here is what I learned from this bs".

 

[767one]

"USTUPID is as USTUPID does" finally realized what it has cost him and where it will end. That's got to leave a mark!


Gives "Lowest pay til the last day!" a whole new meaning doesn't it? Enjoy!!!

FFD,

It has really not cost me anything. I've been taking it easy since my practice retirement in 2007. I've had five bonus years to add to my DB plan and 401k while sort of being on vacation not to mention some land deals my wife made while I was in DUB sightseeing. I'll retire in Dec. and will be just fine. Thanks for the good wishes.... I will enjoy my retirement and I hope you enjoy the rest of your career also.

 

[767one]

No he won't. He is the first EAST Age 65 retirement in December...

And looking forward to it!

 

[767one]

Alpa ceased here and usapa INHERITED all my agreements with the Company which includes the TA...APA will be the same if we merge. MUST inherit all of my agreements/contract to ENFORCE or face UNQUESTIONABLE RIPE DFR along with the Company as co-defendants in regards to the NIC. Of course a new contract with the Company and APA/usapa/alpa/ibt will LEGALLY implement the NIC via MY TA..... skyking.....

I'm curious us1..? You really do not understand this yet do you? My hired CBA MUST enforce my contract with the Company.

OTTER

Patience Otter.

 

[EastUS1]

Here is what I learned from this BS. The court system in this country has very little to do with the dispensing of justice, and everything to do with self promotion, running a legal industry of lawyer and judge employment, which falls entirely along political lines. Wake and Bybee (both republican apointees side with contract law and arbitration) Tashima and the other affirmative action judge (both Democratic appointees side with labor and unions rights).

"The court system in this country has very little to do with the dispensing of justice, and everything to do with self promotion, running a legal industry of lawyer and judge employment, which falls entirely along political lines." On that nic4us?....Well....You and I have never held any more perfect agreement.

 

[EastUS1]

N924PS, on 29 April 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:
No he won't. He is the first EAST Age 65 retirement in December...

So why is he so worried about the Nic and what happens here?

I'm certain that even mentioning the following concept will provide an almost unimaginable shock for you, BUT, for any actual human beings, everything is NOT entirely an issue of "It's ALL about MEEEEEE!"

Per your "He should be fishing." Well...perhaps you should sometimes be thinking. The good news for him is that he can go fishing whenever he chooses. The thinking notion presumes some actual ability to do so...

 

[EastUS1]

If the company and APA refuse to accept anything other than the Nicolau what do you do then?

Good question. If a given union is compelled by it's CBLs to do otherwise than what would be easily acceptable to those...well...any thoughts there? Why would the APA have any actual say as to what list or lists would be provided? Doesn't arbitration, by it's very nature, presume adversarial positions? Does saying "we don't like that list because we might get sued" supply any legal defense?

 

[luvthe9]

Looks like COC will be activated, http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/701345/000095015307002500/p74691exv10w4.htm Hummel and the compass miscorrection boys would be in a world of hurt from this pilot group to give that one up. If we don't get it manangement does not get it.!!!!!

 

[Black Swan]

Swan,

In regards to this and the previous post addressed to me.

I totally understand the 9ths opinion. I completely get the ramifications of the opinion.

But, a couple of things. The 9th made conflicting statements in their dicta, and the biggest ones you quoted above.

First they say, a union does not have to effect a policy for it to be a DFR, the mere promotion of that policy could be a DFR, (and in this case is exactly what usapa was found guilty of by jurty verdict ).....but usapa has not effected the policy yet??? so case dismissed??? That is a conflicting statement that does not address the verdict.

Second, they point out the deference in regards to "internal union matters" yet ignore that this internal matter was resolved by binding arbitration and never even mention that fact. They did not want to make a statement that, hey a uniion can just ignore arbitrations, or arbitrations are meaningless in the context of unions for obvious reason, so...they just ignored the facts. They called the Nic.."the West's preferred method" or some BS like that, not the result of arbitration etc..


Here is what I learned from this BS. The court system in this country has very little to do with the dispensing of justice, and everything to do with self promotion, running a legal industry of lawyer and judge employment, which falls entirely along political lines. Wake and Bybee (both republican apointees side with contract law and arbitration) Tashima and the other affirmative action judge (both Democratic appointees side with labor and unions rights).

So, go ahead and make their day and continue the reneging whining til your hearts content. But, the Nic is and will remain the only accepted system seniority list at LCC. Just no getting around that, and no getting around the fact that any future players are not going to waste their money on your temper tantrum.

PS. your cordial post was reciprocated in kind.

Nic4, good morning, and I do agree with you on the commentary on the legalese. Between the appointments for political reasons of all leanings, and the ample cash flowing to select, elect, etc. Justice most assuredly is for sale.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Looks like COC will be activated, http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/701345/000095015307002500/p74691exv10w4.htm Hummel and the compass miscorrection boys would be in a world of hurt from this pilot group to give that one up. If we don't get it manangement does not get it.!!!!!

Two different legal matters altogether. What legally and contractually defines a CoC for an executive (SVP in this case) and the pilots as defined by their CBA is quite different. Were executive CoC provisions triggered in the HP/US merger? I believe they were and yet the pilot's and other represented labor groups did not have those provisions triggered.

I'm not saying that there are no circumstances in which the CoC provisions in labor agreements would be triggered; what I am saying is that executive CoC provisions can be triggered while the represented labor groups with CoC provisions might not, just like what happened back in 2005. You could be severely disappointed if you are resting all your hopes on an executive CoC agreement. Still if it helps you to endorse the US/AA merger/acquisition then by all means believe anything you like.