US Pilots Labor Discussion

[OTTER574]

You may be right. IMO though, the tem sheet is with the APA, and would apply only to the AA employees. If/when this merger happens, if/when the piolts are absorbed into the APA, the APA would still have to enforce all 3 CBA's for the pilot groups until a transition agreement can be negotiated and ratified to bring all 3 groups under a single CBA. I meant years to negotiate a transition agreement.

We'll be one big happy family under the APA tent union in control (single class and craft comes to mind) and wanting a promised PAY RAISE/Contract (legal NIC included for SLI) for all members from Parker/company.

How do you think that vote will go?

OTTER

 

[Metroyet]

Ok, so if we accept APA's contract, does that finish our merger and we are one while we wait on the AA/US SLI? What if we don't ratify the contract?

Your new union is going to ratify for you. You don't get to vote. Being their pensions get saved, I bet it passes.

 

[Claxon]

How has he harmed the west? He tells the truth and backs it up. He may not be polite but he gets his point across. You may not like him but my guess is that he doesn't want you to like him.

The westerners movies are amusing, but accomplish nothing. The points are pointless. The only new move for Move2Clt will be to the new ladies rooms in the commuter terminal in CLT. That is it. Porcelain chairs, tile walls. She is as ignorant of the rest of them, tirades and rants, but no substance. It is extremely amusing watching the non movement. The American deal, if it goes, will derail the Nic and the move, maybe forever.

 

[Pi brat]

brat...Just maybe, when you fill out the APA application to join the/our new union, this may just be the time-line you're seeking??....Is this your question answered btw? Somehow I don't think sooo... :blink:

Next time you see hummel and especially that steve bradford guy, known as the founder of usapa = ustupid...Be sure and pat them on the back for a job well done.... 😛

OTTER

As usual, I have a hard time following you. Some or your posts are like a certain easties.......


Pat Bradford on the back? Well, you guys have said this whole thing was all about delay so if that was true and what you guys are predicting comes true, well, they did a pretty good job huh? What happens to nic4us's gazillion dollars of damages?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I would have said that too but I think Horton may turn and actually give in to this merger attempt.

I don't know if you missed this article:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/morning_call/2012/04/amr-likely-to-consider-merger-in.html?ana=yfcpc

First, I don't necessarily buy what was said in testimony as an indication of what Horton prefers - AA is required to examine all offers as part of the duty to creditors but has said nothing himself that would lead me to believe he favors the US offer (if and when it's officially released).

Second, if there is a merger on US' terms it will be when AA emerges from bankruptcy like the US/HP merger. That will be around the end of the year at the earliest - the timeline can't be compressed more than that. Like in most legal matters, the wheels of bankruptcy grind slowly.

Third, as an aside, Parker is already tiptoeing along the perimeter of what is allowed during the exclusivity period. Much more and he risks getting b@%#hslapped by the Judge.

Fourth, as an "I thought", it was my impression that the 60 days from signing the term sheet was the timeline to have a conditional contract with APA. I don't believe that that by itself will trigger a STS ruling by the NMB. The TWU has already used Parker's offer as leverage to get AA to back off on some of it's terms - a ratification vote on the modified AA term sheet will occur shortly - so who's to say that the same won't happen with the APA? Parker's "end run" could be a loss of 25 yards on the desperation hail mary play that ends the game...

Jim

 

[OTTER574]

As usual, I have a hard time following you. Some or your posts are like a certain easties.......


Pat Bradford on the back? Well, you guys have said this whole thing was all about delay so if that was true and what you guys are predicting comes true, well, they did a pretty good job huh? What happens to nic4us's gazillion dollars of damages?

brat...When usapa = ustupid no longer exists (seham/bradford took away the separate MEC members ratification vote under alpa by forming usapa = ustupid) and maybe soon, APA is our CBA. Who will put out the TA for all MIG's to vote on? usapa = ustupid or APA?

As far as the REAL DAMAGES caused by usapa = ustupid...you can sleep well at night and thank the west each time you see us for having saved your career.... 😉

OTTER

 

[Black Swan]

FYI. The company has already chosen the Nic.

Crack open the DJ transcripts.

Charlotte-
You say they chose the Nic. Why is it not now the methodology used then? Very simple answer, but you refuse to answer. It is simple, they can't. It has to be in a CBA. And now there is a new bargaining agent that does not pro offer the Nic in anything. It is a new day, a new game, and the APA cannot carry it forward because it never is, never was.


9th Court of Appeals San Francisco-
7] Plaintiffs correctly note that certain West Pilots have
been furloughed, whereas they would still be working under
a single CBA implementing the Nicolau Award. It is, however,
at best, speculative that a single CBA incorporating the
Nicolau Award would be ratified if presented to the union’s
membership. ALPA had been unable to broker a compromise
between the two pilot groups, and the East Pilots had
expressed their intentions not to ratify a CBA containing the
Nicolau Award. Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated.

So even if the company said the Nic is the method, the 9th says otherwise. All it takes is another trip to the same 9th, and the outcome is the same. Your statement is patently FALSE. To carry forward and be used by the APA the Nicolau Award has to be voted in successfully in a CBA. It cannot be used any other way by the APA. You have to get it voted in first. That is the ONLY way.

 

[pjirish317]

Hmm, what law says you have to have a transition agreement?

I suppose that you could go right to a vote to be covered by the APA CBA without negotiating a transition agreement. But there would have to be a vote.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I suppose that you could go right to a vote to be covered by the APA CBA without negotiating a transition agreement. But there would have to be a vote.

Why? Contracts in this industry have been accepted by the union governing body at an airline about as long as there have been unions in the industry. Unless the APA constitution and bylaws mandate a vote, there wouldn't have to be one.

Jim

 

[fodase]

I suppose that you could go right to a vote to be covered by the APA CBA without negotiating a transition agreement. But there would have to be a vote.

Sure, would the vote be separate or could it be for the whole combined airline?

 

[OTTER574]

I suppose that you could go right to a vote to be covered by the APA CBA without negotiating a transition agreement. But there would have to be a vote.

And who would be in the APA Ma-jor-i-ty?...... 😱

OTTER

 

[EastUS1]

Your new union is going to ratify for you.

Does the APA also choose and submit seniority list(s) for the US side to the arbitrator(s)? No? So...what agencies are involved with doing that?

 

[pjirish317]

Why? Contracts in this industry have been accepted by the union governing body at an airline about as long as there have been unions in the industry. Unless the APA constitution and bylaws mandate a vote, there wouldn't have to be one.

Jim

Why wouldn't there be a vote?

 

[Move2CLT]

What's to prevent APA from taking this "term sheet" and using it for leverage to get a better deal from AA management and telling Parker to take a hike?? You talk as if this is a done deal. I, for one, don't think so.

Driver...

Think about it. Horton's plan is to gut labor to return to profitability because he thinks that's the only way.

How do you think that would look if all of a sudden he was able to match Parked's offer? Would you believe him?

And take your hate of Parker, multiply it by 1000, and you'll just scratch the surface as to the level of hate they have for Horton. If Horton offered them the moon they'd tell him to go f himself.

 

[OTTER574]

Does the APA also choose and submit seniority list(s) for the US side to the arbitrator(s)? No? So...what agencies are involved with doing that?

bradford usapa = ustupid founder, will need a heart defibrillator and supplemental oxygen when he/usapa presents the LEGAL NIC across the table for final and binding SLI arbitration with APA.... 😉

OTTER