US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

And this comment shows how wrong the 9th was. The 9th claimed we can never know what the final "bargaining proposal" would be until it was ratified, and so we could not quantify damages, yet they were beyond sure that the Nic. could not be ratified? What sense does that make?

Imagine how embarrassed the 9th will be when they read your post and discover that they were wrong.

 

[OTTER574]

Imagine how embarrassed the 9th will be when they read your post and discover that they were wrong.

I think Federal Judge Bybee (9th circuit) and Federal Judge Wake (Arizona District) and a Jury would also agree......

OTTER

 

[fodase]

Imagine how embarrassed the 9th will be when they read your post and discover that they were wrong.

They just need to look at the case in front of silver to know that.

 

[nevergiveup]

And this comment shows how wrong the 9th was. The 9th claimed we can never know what the final "bargaining proposal" would be until it was ratified, and so we could not quantify damages, yet they were beyond sure that the Nic. could not be ratified? What sense does that make?

It appears they were correct.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If you consider him deluded have you signed a recall form yet?

Duh! If it worked that way, we easties would have recalled your PHX reps months ago.

 

[cleardirect]

Duh! If it worked that way, we easties would have recalled your PHX reps months ago.

Can't figure how to do that yet? You did manage to hijack the appeal board election.

 

[Move2CLT]

2007. One more time. 2007 was when the Nicolau Award came out. It isn't being used today is it? Wonder why? You need a combined CBA to make it a vote in possibility. It isn't happening. Now you say your airline is merging with APA. If it somehow does, it will be a three way seniority integration, without the Nicolau because the Nicolau never was in any CBA. How stupid can the western division pilots be? You would have to have a vote with a contract with the eastern, with the numbers to vote in the Nicolau, then another round of negotiations with AA.Do you really think your management would go through that just to give you your unachievable the chance for a vote when they want to merge? You mean absolutely nothing to them. You are totally delusional. It will NEVER happen. TICK TOCK. Game over. Sue away, you are delusional.

Yo ClaxoMM, USAPA came on property when? DOH isn't being used, you have no contract, and you're still on LOA 93.

Talk about not happening...

 

[fodase]

As of 4:30 Pm Today the APA has shared that the combined plan with Parker is for Nic. to be the list. Both the company and apa lawyers agree, The company siding with the west in the DJ case is not a fluke, it was planned out and part of the overall plan to make this merger go smoothly. The plan includes the APA taking over from usapa and presenting the combined contract to all pilot's to vote on. The usapa lawyers will be immediately fired with arrangements for apa to pay for independant lcc merger counsel.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Imagine how embarrassed the 9th will be when they read your post and discover that they were wrong.

Well, so far they've been wrong with their "USAPA may yet propose a seniority solution that does not do the harm that the west fears" (paraphrasing). That statement was the foundation of the "not ripe" ruling, yet USAPA hasn't changed it's demand at all. I guess that leaves it to the APA...

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

Eric,

Here is for the guys that don't understand the process we are now in. First, there is complete transparency in committee appointees. It was announced in an Officer Update that the appointees for committees are listed on the yellow pages.

Now on to the bigger issue of putting West members on committees. Gary ran on the position that there was only one issue that we disagreed on with the West and that was seniority. Therefore, we need to get the West involved if we are to be successful going forward. That has the support of the majority of our pilots. It is also already having positive results.

Even on the merger committee it is now appropriate for a West member to be on the committee. The Nicolau Award will be defeated one of two ways. First, it will be defeated in court, either in PHX or at the 9th Circuit. Don't take my word for it, ask Mike Gillies what he has been told by our attorneys. The merger committee we appoint will have no bearing in how this court case plays out, it is in the hands of our attorneys. Second, it has no bearing in a merger with AA. Even the West would have to agree that it only resides in the TA between East and West as a negotiating position to be used in a joint East/West contract. That contract will never happen and the TA will drop dead. There will be a new TA between APA, USAPA, and LCC which dictates McCaskill- Bond Arbitration if we can not negotiate seniority. Therefore, the West has as much of a right to be represented at the table as the PHL pilots concerning the conditions and restrictions that we put forward. And by the way, there is going to be a PHL pilot on the committee. If you want to subject USAPA and our pilot group to a DFR lawsuit, go ahead and attempt to negotiate a new list with APA without West representation. Our constitutionally mandated position is DOH with conditions and restrictions.

Now, if someone still believes that one person on a committee can change the constitution and somehow get 2/3 of our pilot group to vote for the change, they are just not dealing with reality. It is nothing more than using fear to motivate our pilot group by taking advantage of their ignorance of the situation. In other words, more Cleary style politics of "creating a crisis so that we are the only ones that can save you". If someone is running on this, it is a sign of their ignorance of the situation or their willingness to lie to the pilot group for personal gain.

You can be fearful out of ignorance and be taken advantage of or you can have courage out of knowledge. I prefer the latter.

Jamie A. Weidner

Jamie,

First off, you're a putz.

As for your TA nonsense, you need to understand something. You are irrelevant. There will be no comprehensive TA proposal. The most you'll see is a bridge agreement with a tiny bit of language. Then will come a corporate merger followed by single carrier status. The joint contract will be the one that's being negotiated right now - without you.

The APA is running the show.

And I'm sure by now you already have found out the APA's stand on the Nicolau. How long before you tell your constituency?


Sincerely,

Reality

 

[Move2CLT]

It's not a DOT document Jim

Ya think? <_<

 

[nic4us]

Dear nic4us

Your quest for gaining 17 plus years of major airline seniority by virtue of being with the only regional airline that would hire you is over sir. Your misrepresentation of the 9th circuit courts ruling on ripeness has cost the West pilots wasteful badge backing funds for too long.

The correct 9th circuit court correct quote is as follows;

"The present impasse, in fact, could well be prolonged by prematurely resolving the West Pilots’
claim judicially at this point.By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain
in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members
— both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe
DFR suit, once a contract is ratified."

The court was not commenting on your law suit value, only the timing. It is not ripe to sue until a CBA is voted on.

You promised and still are "billions of dollars worth of damages" that will never come to pass. Add up the West furloughs who your "West leaders" talked in to not coming back. They will be on the bottom of the list, but will never be called back. That sir, is billions of dollars in emotional loss to the pilots and their families. Have you no decency sir?

Hey Luv...your scab attempt at a put down fell on deaf ears, as I left a job at a major airline to go to work for AWA.

It really does bother you that my "regional airline" ended up buying your shithole of a bankrupt airline that really never made true legacy major status, and that you ended up nothing more than a scab trying to steal my job. Bothers me too!!

My read on the 9th is much closer to reality than the little lawyers or the scab unions.

Yes the 9th was aware that ....
"Forced to bargain for the Nicolau Award, any
contract USAPA could negotiate would undoubtedly be rejected by its
membership."

That goes without saying. The 9th says, hey look here, the scabs are in control of the union with majority vote, if it is the Nic, they vote no....so lets not make it...."prolonged by prematurely resolving the West Pilots’
claim judicially at this point." Lets give them another chance to "bargain for all members- both east and West...and if they don't we will add a warning and call it the... "PAIN of an unquestionably ripe DFR"


Further, don't lecture me on decency when it is a direct result of scabs like you and your scab union that West pilots are furloughed out of seniority, you job stealing lowlife CS scab.

Further, any remaining West furloughees have been offered recall, and are therefore bypassing recall and are senior to anyone below them on the Nic, including scab Coello...Get it yet?? You are in no position to make the rules or demands, so just STFU you loser from a loser airline.

 

[nic4us]

As of 4:30 Pm Today the APA has shared that the combined plan with Parker is for Nic. to be the list. Both the company and apa lawyers agree, The company siding with the west in the DJ case is not a fluke, it was planned out and part of the overall plan to make this merger go smoothly. The plan includes the APA taking over from usapa and presenting the combined contract to all pilot's to vote on. The usapa lawyers will be immediately fired with arrangements for apa to pay for independant lcc merger counsel.

Got a link?

 

[fodase]

Got a link?

No link, Usapa has been completely excluded to prevent them from screwing anything up. Today usapa was told that the deal is structured as follows:

1- Corporate Merger

2- Single carrier application (bridge agreement in place with amr unions, binding arbitration if a deal not done in 60 days)

3- After Single carrier approval, contracts offered to all other work groups. (single contract triggers nic. removing all legal liability)

There will be no TA negotiated as last time for any work group, eliminating any integration issues. The compan's lawyers expect the DJ to bind them to the Nic. and they expect usapa to appeal all the way to scotus, so the lawyers came up with this plan to eliminate usapa and get the company integrated asap. 60 days to get all contracts finished with seniority arbitration following. The APA will request binding arbitration once the contract is ratified with a goal of full integration in 24 months. This follows DAL/NWA road map.

P.S. Majority rules, so the apa can easily do all this within their dfr. check mate.

 

[flyingskier]

Keep denying reality...

That's what I heard, plus unlike you I go through PHL and PHX frequently. Please enlighten me to your reality, oh great knower of all things aviation.

Skier