US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

Is that threat?

PS: my dad was a Golden Gloves boxer. I learned a lot from my dad over the years. One of the things he taught me, as well as my Sensei in martial arts training was never use your skills against the weak. So no, eastus, I will decline your offer to step outside the school house.

It was intended as response to your notions of "civilized", ie "I bet you got beat up in school a lot". That such didn't immediately register on you tells most all anything they'd need to estimate the extent of your ummm..."intelligence" in an instant. But anyway....Wow!...How "impressive" indeed!...especially the bragging about your dad/etc. Had you EVER actually payed the least attention to any serious Sensei, you would know far better than to ever assume anything of an opponent. What was your school/style?...The Teletubbies Toughies? No matter. Enjoy your cherished fantasies.

OK, that was bit brusque and I mean no offense to your father, who has no fault in your foolishness here. Perhaps you're actually a serious student, and the Teletubbies bit isn't appropriate. What flagged concern is that you're most likely an inmate of one of the "Get your belts here kids!...All kinds of pretty colors to keep you paying money!..We've got 'em in white, yellow, orange, green, purple, brown and even PLAID!" "Heck!; We've got 'em in all colors of the rainbow!...even though none actually matter in any encounter!...We'll feed each and every one of you whatever "warrior" fantasies as to how "tough" you are you need to hear, just from coming here."..."We take cash, checks or plastic!" Most "schools" are of that sort within the USA. Your "never use your skills against the weak." struck me as exactly that type of crap/hype. Any serious Sensei I ever met found the "rainbow belt coalition" to be ridiculous, and believed only 2 colors were appropriate =white and black, and that some things should be obvious, as in not abusing anyone without reason.

PS: Since, as you absurdly proposed; we live in "a civilized society" and you've concern for weak opponents...I suppose traditional swords or pistols, or even thrown ping pong balls are all out of the question as well? Sigh!...This is just no fun at all

 

[fodase]

because the Nicolau never was in any CBA.

From the company

Upon execution of the Transition Agreement, the parties (including ALPA at first and
then USAPA) treated it as a binding contract: they acted in accordance with the Transition
Agreement’s terms by, inter alia, adjudicating grievances regarding its interpretation and
application pursuant to its dispute-resolution procedures. (See Doc. No. 164 at 9:13-25.)
The fact that the Nicolau Award has not yet been implemented does not change the fact
that the Transition Agreement contains a commitment to the Nicolau Award, and such
contractual commitment is therefore part of the status quo.4

So the Nic. is part of both our current cba's

 

[traderjake]

Be careful, you're going to ruin Claxon's delusion.

 

[PullUp]

From the company

So the Nic. is part of both our current cba's

Not without a ratified contract. It has been 'accepted' but not implemented.
Besides, the pilot group was/is supposed to get a shiny new contract in return for implementing the list, which enables the company to exercise its synergies by mixing crews and aircraft as one fleet.
No contract, no list - whatever it is.
Cheers.

 

[fodase]

Be careful, you're going to ruin Claxon's delusion.

They refuse to believe this document even exists. The fact it was filed in federal court seals the company's legal position going forward.

 

[fodase]

Not without a ratified contract. It has been 'accepted' but not implemented.

So the Nic. is not part of our current cba? You better let the company and usapa's lawyers know.

 

[FL430]

So the Nic. is not part of our current cba? You better let the company and usapa's lawyers know.

OK fodase, how about this:

I will call my reps and tell them to accept the Nic. Tell them to negotiate seniority with the APA and give them the top 2017 positions for their larger numbers of widebodies. East senior pilots get the next 517 on the combined list due to their widebodies brought to the merger. Then slotting the rest of the way down with a formula that gives pilots credit for years of service, current status, and date of hire. That way APA furloughees and former east furloughees do not get hosed this time. This way the lists do not even get into the hands of an arbitrator. You can then direct AOL to sue USAPA who will no longer exist in about six months for all they are worth. The APA is happy too because USAPA accepted the Nic just like it calls for in the previous transition agreement.

Fair enough?

 

[Keroseneuser]

Lots of arguments abound. But I am looking at what they seem to be doing. APA thinks that "NIC is likely not a factor" and Eric put out that "DFR ripeness is likely" in what tempe has set up with APA.

APA has signed an agreement with Doug, and APA has met with AOL. Both APA and AOL seem to think that NIC is not the way its going.

Now the question is.....Since there has never been a joint US/HP contract and in effect it is an incomplete merger that if this deal goes through will be superceeded by a new merger. Does a DFR still have any real legal standing? Especially if both the company (US) and the union (USAPA) that the DFR would have been directed at have ceased to exist? AA, APA will be the ones left standing after all this and neither of them had anything to do with a previous failed attempt at integration.

It would be interesting to consult 5 different corporate lawyers about this, I bet you would come up with at least 3 different answers.

However it turns out I don't think it is going to be anything that either east or west thinks is going to happen. Interesting times ahead.

 

[EastUS1]

Lots of arguments abound. But I am looking at what they seem to be doing. APA thinks that "NIC is likely not a factor" and Eric put out that "DFR ripeness is likely" in what tempe has set up with APA.

It would be interesting to consult 5 different corporate lawyers about this, I bet you would come up with at least 3 different answers.

However it turns out I don't think it is going to be anything that either east or west thinks is going to happen. Interesting times ahead.

"Interesting Times" indeed. This whole mess provides a truly unique set of circumstances.

 

[Move2CLT]

DCA,

Why push for a recall in PHL? You DCA guys along with the PHX and Weidner/Jordan PHL vote have controlled the BPR for well over a year. You guys own our futures. This is your show and has been for a long time.

Hate

I dont recall Cleary ever asking the BPR for permission to do anything.

 

[Move2CLT]

OK fodase, how about this:

I will call my reps and tell them to accept the Nic. Tell them to negotiate seniority with the APA and give them the top 2017 positions for their larger numbers of widebodies. East senior pilots get the next 517 on the combined list due to their widebodies brought to the merger. Then slotting the rest of the way down with a formula that gives pilots credit for years of service, current status, and date of hire. That way APA furloughees and former east furloughees do not get hosed this time. This way the lists do not even get into the hands of an arbitrator. You can then direct AOL to sue USAPA who will no longer exist in about six months for all they are worth. The APA is happy too because USAPA accepted the Nic just like it calls for in the previous transition agreement.

Fair enough?

Who said anything about USAPA negotiating seniority? You do realized this is going to arbitration, right?

 

[Move2CLT]

You really don't have a clue on this. You and the Dr. keep the Leonidas dream alive, not facts.

Love it!!! East on east hate here on the boards.

Speaking of facts there Claxon (little help for DCA319), do you remember this little tidbit from the company:

"The fact that the Nicolau Award has not yet been implemented does not change the fact
that the Transition Agreement contains a commitment to the Nicolau Award, and such
contractual commitment is therefore part of the status quo."

Read that over and over Claxon - out loud if you have to. That is what we call a fact.

 

[Move2CLT]

They believe in relative integrity, generally speaking..

As opposed to your belief in no integrity.

Generally speaking.

 

[Move2CLT]

2007. One more time. 2007 was when the Nicolau Award came out. It isn't being used today is it? Wonder why? You need a combined CBA to make it a vote in possibility. It isn't happening. Now you say your airline is merging with APA. If it somehow does, it will be a three way seniority integration, without the Nicolau because the Nicolau never was in any CBA. How stupid can the western division pilots be? You would have to have a vote with a contract with the eastern, with the numbers to vote in the Nicolau, then another round of negotiations with AA.Do you really think your management would go through that just to give you your unachievable the chance for a vote when they want to merge? You mean absolutely nothing to them. You are totally delusional. It will NEVER happen. TICK TOCK. Game over. Sue away, you are delusional.

Here we go Claxon. A timeline even you can understand:

1. Modified list submitted by USAPA for SLI
2. Said list rejected by company and APA
3. Nicolau substituted
4. Two way integration begins
5. Twenty day time limit expires, no extension granted.
6. Arbitration ensues
7. New SLI award based on relative seniority using Nicolau and the APA lists with equipment fences.
8. AA emerges from bankruptcy
9. SCC declared and APA becomes CBA without a vote due to its size relative to USAPA
10. US Airways pilots became APA members and AA pilots under new contract negotiated by APA.

The End.

 

[luvthe9]

Here we go Claxon. A timeline even you can understand:

1. Modified list submitted by USAPA for SLI
2. Said list rejected by company and APA
3. Nicolau substituted
4. Two way integration begins
5. Twenty day time limit expires, no extension granted.
6. Arbitration ensues
7. New SLI award based on relative seniority using Nicolau and the APA lists with equipment fences.
8. AA emerges from bankruptcy
9. SCC declared and APA becomes CBA without a vote due to its size relative to USAPA
10. US Airways pilots became APA members and AA pilots under new contract negotiated by APA.

The End.

It's always good to have a know it all, you won't be getting item 7. sorry.