US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Being a certified class IS LEGAL STANDING YOU MORON!

claxon's flamebait is devoid of the reality of the situation.


Here is the reality of the situation. The APA, LCC, and the 9th circuit are all aware that usapa end ran the West pilot group. Further, all parties are keenly aware of the consequences of ratification of any non-Nic CBA, being damages for that end run from a certified union with a DFR to not "end run" those it has an obligation to represent.

The only parties that think it is legal to fail a DFR are the little union busting lawyer and the scabs who founded and controled usapa for the last 4 years, oh, and scab Claxon.

 

[dca319]

Law suit? Of course. The good Dr. Jacobs is all in for another Leonidas Field Trip to the Cleaners. Why not? The APA will take you on like Parker, and spit you out. You have no legal standing, just a bunch of donations and a lawyer willing to ride with it. Do yourselves a favor and give it to a charity, you will start the path to recovery. Accept the fact USAPA absolutely end ran you, and continues to. APA is fully aware of that fact.

Claxon you're as bad as mutis mutandis. Nothing you posted is true. Piedmont attested to the effectiveness of Leonidas and I agree with him. I cannot understand why you insist on writing untruths. Leonidas clearly has a DFR case and I believe APA respects this because Parker has told them not to take the path we have taken. And with MB in place the options for APA are limited. I don't have APAs briefing notes but even their attorney stated the slotting would be the method.

 

[nevergiveup]

The Nicolau will be used!

As you said the quickest and cheapest way for Parker is to use the Nicolau. He does not want to be sucked into another hybrid DFR. The APA does not want to spend the next 3-5 years in court fighting a DFR because of usapa. An injunction would put a stop to Parker's merger, not what he wants. He did learn a couple things dealing with you guys.

Besides, read the T/A. It would not be a 3 way. Usapa if they ignore the Nicolau would have to use 3 lists. East, west and third list. There is not way usapa could argue that new hires should be senior to west pilots.

Also the only reason there are west F/O and east captains is because you east pilots caused the delay. APA will actually look at the data and understand your "the west is abunch of young punks" argument is bull.

You will come out better without the NIC using relative position.

 

[nic4us]

The western division has failed to grasp the fact the Nicolau is only available through a joint contract. It will never happen now especially with APA now running the show. They want nothing to do with putting anything like the Nic in as it will artificially put junior western to the top. They know the attrition better than Leonidas, and are willing to work with USAPA to keep Leonidas tamped down. Ferguson miscalculated and waited too long. They have no understanding of the process, and it costs them dearly.

Here is another falicy the scabs always say, but have no basis in fact.

The Nic does not put junior West pilots "to the top". It puts junior West pilots....umm...junior. Nowhere near "the top". The "top" was reserved for east pilots, who were already at "the top" and remained there.

 

[EastUS1]

Hypocrites?

West pilots claimed AWA saved US when it acquired it. Truth: Saved both airlines.

East pilots claim US will save AA with a merger. Truth: Long term, better for both airlines.

Irony maybe?

"Irony maybe?" ...And then some, when any EVER use such nonsensical bs to "justify" anything. I thought that true of many of the west folks, and I feel it equally absurd for any easties to ever even attempt such. NONE among the line employees make the decisions, good or bad, that "save" anybody in such transactions.

 

[EastCheats]

You will come out better without the NIC using relative position.

If we come out better with relative position, I would think you would be promoting the Nic....

 

[EastUS1]

Rational people if they know there is going to be a law suit will avoid that activity.

That depends entirely on what degree of threat said rational people assign to the potential litigation, versus the perceived benefits of proceeding as they wish.

 

[EastUS1]

No one ever said AWA saved you.

Point taken. The shouted quotes quickly recalled were more of the "We saved you!" variety, presuming "heroic", "noble" deeds on the part of just the working stiffs...which was, of course, complete and utter BS.

 

[nic4us]

You will come out better without the NIC using relative position.

Maybe, but I think the better way of saying it would be the West would not lose position relative to the east.

Imagine this....we go into arbitration using 3 LCC lists to be integrated with the APA list. east, West, newhire.

The West first arguement to the arbitrator is simple. No west pilot should be placed on the combined list below an east pilot who was below them on the Nic, regardless of any fencing that might take place.

I am thinking an arbitrator would be inclined to agree that an arbitrated result is both final and binding, and therefore see the West's position as completely logical, therefore granted in the final award.


It is a bad strategy however, because although the West would not lose anything relative to the east, all LCC pilots could lose in the bigger picture as the east tries to outsmart the system and gain at West expense, while we all are brought to lower status, as the east arguements for why the West should be placed at lower status would actually apply to all LCC pilots in the arbitrators mind, and we all get moved down a combined list.

 

[EastUS1]

If we come out better with relative position, I would think you would be promoting the Nic....

...And if you actually BELIEVED in relative position, as being ANY semblance of a guiding PRINCIPLE, I would think you'd be the first to endorse a "snapshot at the time of the merger", instead of some never used piece of paper

 

[Piedmont1984]

What if the west abandons its Nic argument in exchange for the elimination of the 517 exclusion zone?

Seems to me that a 3 way SLI allows the east to rid themselves of the Nic and the west to rid themselves of the 517 clause - which may benefit the west more in a slotted scenario with APA.

 

[EastUS1]

Meaning all we have to ask to see which way it will likely go is this.....What puts money in Tempe and the creditors/shareholders pocket the quickest? Figure that out and you have the absolute answer on what the plan is. Doug is about the money and the quickest way to the money.

Indeed.

 

[EastCheats]

...And if you actually BELIEVED in relative position, as being ANY semblance of a guiding PRINCIPLE, I would think you'd be the first to endorse a "snapshot at the time of the merger", instead of some never used piece of paper

East,

Would that be the yet to be used piece of paper or the one which will never be used in any seniority integration after the legislation, known as the McCaskill-Bond statute, was signed into law in December 2007 and is codified at 49 U.S.C. § 42112?

 

[prechilill]

What if the west abandons its Nic argument in exchange for the elimination of the 517 exclusion zone?

Seems to me that a 3 way SLI allows the east to rid themselves of the Nic and the west to rid themselves of the 517 clause - which may benefit the west more in a slotted scenario with APA.

The east would have to change their union constitution from doh to relative seniority first.

 

[EastUS1]

East,

Would that be the yet to be used piece of paper or the one which will never be used in any seniority integration after the legislation, known as the McCaskill-Bond statute, was signed into law in December 2007 and is codified at 49 U.S.C. § 42112?

Nice dodge. Either one believes in relative seniority = where you are at the time of the merger/what could you actually bid then/etc.....or doesn't. Any notions to modify "where you are at the time.." betray a clear lack of actual principles in this issue. Suggesting modification of existing reality to suit the nic amounts to nothing more than "woulda'/coulda'/shoulda" fantasies.