US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

The recent AOL update also said the following:

" we must remain abundantly clear today, just as we have been all along: there remains is no ability (or desire) for the West to negotiate away any of the rights embodied in the Nicolau Award, and we will continue to vigorously defend those rights. "

How ironic if, in a three way SLI, the east embraces the merger with AA and APA, is willing to move off DOH in order to consumate the same, while AOL obstructs and attempts to jeopordize the deal because they refuse to abandon the Nic.

 

[Claxon]

This statement in Eric's AOL update seems to point to the agreement that Tempe and APA have come up with does not include using NIC. Why else would he make the statement that "These events will likely create the painfully ripe threshold"?

This combined with what we have heard from the APA as "NIC not likely being a factor" seems to point to Tempe and the APA moving forward expecting this to be a 3 way merger under Mc/bond.

Sounds like Tempe figures the cheaper and quicker way to get this done is 3 way it and then let the DFR suit play its course out over the next 3 or 10 years or however long it takes the courts to fight it out.

I guess the real questions will be does APA want a bunch of older soon to retire east pilots and current west captains above a lot of their pilots or do they want a bunch of much younger currently west F/O's above thier current captains. 3 way merge keeps everybody in reletive position that they in now on the 3 fleets. NIC and a 2 way puts hundreds of west f/o's who are on average much younger than the east guys in a lot of captain spots that they do not hold at present. The other question is what will be quicker for tempe to get it done? Have to deal with the NIC legal fight to play out before getting it finalized, or finalize it using a 3 way and then operate as single carrier while the DFR suit spends years in the court system.

Meaning all we have to ask to see which way it will likely go is this.....What puts money in Tempe and the creditors/shareholders pocket the quickest? Figure that out and you have the absolute answer on what the plan is. Doug is about the money and the quickest way to the money.

Just my opinion after reading the info that is out there right now.

The western division has failed to grasp the fact the Nicolau is only available through a joint contract. It will never happen now especially with APA now running the show. They want nothing to do with putting anything like the Nic in as it will artificially put junior western to the top. They know the attrition better than Leonidas, and are willing to work with USAPA to keep Leonidas tamped down. Ferguson miscalculated and waited too long. They have no understanding of the process, and it costs them dearly.

 

[Claxon]

You guys wonder how your reps can screw this up? Well. Here you go.

Oh, and someone remind boo boo where the position he was in 2005 and why the merger had to go do sooner rather than later.

Without those painful sacrifices, our airline wouldn't be in a position to be throwing a lifeline to the pilots of American Airlines.

Fraternally,

Mike Gillies
PHL Vice Chairman

At least he has a valid argument. Your Nicolau argument is just a mirage. There will be no Move2Clt, other than one experienced in a porcelain furnished room in an airport in Mecklenberg County............

 

[Pi brat]

Did I miss something?

Uh, did you catch the AOL update?

 

[luvthe9]

At least he has a valid argument. Your Nicolau argument is just a mirage. There will be no Move2Clt, other than a porcelain roomed experience in an airport in Mecklenberg County............

Is is this not the pot calling the kettle black, how many time have we heard AWA claim to have saved us, what a group of hypocrites.

 

[luvthe9]

You guys wonder how your reps can screw this up? Well. Here you go.

Oh, and someone remind boo boo where the position he was in 2005 and why the merger had to go do sooner rather than later.

Without those painful sacrifices, our airline wouldn't be in a position to be throwing a lifeline to the pilots of American Airlines.

Fraternally,

Mike Gillies
PHL Vice Chairman

Is is this not the pot calling the kettle black, how many time have we heard AWA claim to have saved us, what a group of hypocrites.

 

[Beancounter]

Is is this not the pot calling the kettle black, how many time have we heard AWA claim to have saved us, what a group of hypocrites.

Hypocrites?

West pilots claimed AWA saved US when it acquired it. Truth: Saved both airlines.

Now:

East pilots claim US will save AA with a merger. Truth: Long term, better for both airlines.

Irony maybe?

Bean

 

[cleardirect]

This statement in Eric's AOL update seems to point to the agreement that Tempe and APA have come up with does not include using NIC. Why else would he make the statement that "These events will likely create the painfully ripe threshold"?

This combined with what we have heard from the APA as "NIC not likely being a factor" seems to point to Tempe and the APA moving forward expecting this to be a 3 way merger under Mc/bond.

Sounds like Tempe figures the cheaper and quicker way to get this done is 3 way it and then let the DFR suit play its course out over the next 3 or 10 years or however long it takes the courts to fight it out.

I guess the real questions will be does APA want a bunch of older soon to retire east pilots and current west captains above a lot of their pilots or do they want a bunch of much younger currently west F/O's above thier current captains. 3 way merge keeps everybody in reletive position that they in now on the 3 fleets. NIC and a 2 way puts hundreds of west f/o's who are on average much younger than the east guys in a lot of captain spots that they do not hold at present. The other question is what will be quicker for tempe to get it done? Have to deal with the NIC legal fight to play out before getting it finalized, or finalize it using a 3 way and then operate as single carrier while the DFR suit spends years in the court system.

Meaning all we have to ask to see which way it will likely go is this.....What puts money in Tempe and the creditors/shareholders pocket the quickest? Figure that out and you have the absolute answer on what the plan is. Doug is about the money and the quickest way to the money.

Just my opinion after reading the info that is out there right now.

The Nicolau will be used!

As you said the quickest and cheapest way for Parker is to use the Nicolau. He does not want to be sucked into another hybrid DFR. The APA does not want to spend the next 3-5 years in court fighting a DFR because of usapa. An injunction would put a stop to Parker's merger, not what he wants. He did learn a couple things dealing with you guys.

Besides, read the T/A. It would not be a 3 way. Usapa if they ignore the Nicolau would have to use 3 lists. East, west and third list. There is not way usapa could argue that new hires should be senior to west pilots.

Also the only reason there are west F/O and east captains is because you east pilots caused the delay. APA will actually look at the data and understand your "the west is abunch of young punks" argument is bull.

 

[cleardirect]

Is is this not the pot calling the kettle black, how many time have we heard AWA claim to have saved us, what a group of hypocrites.

What was you it guys claimed. That the west didn't buy anything?

What life line is Gilles throwing the AA pilots? What Parker is offering is management. You know the same management that you guy disparage every day.

How is us airways is going save anyone? Btw you guys all said that an airlines financials don t matter. Why does AA need to be saved? What was it you told us? Us airways was to big to fail and someone would come along and give them money. Well AA is a lot bigger than us airways ever was.

So yes it's you east guys that are the hypocrites.

 

[Move2CLT]

Is is this not the pot calling the kettle black, how many time have we heard AWA claim to have saved us, what a group of hypocrites.

No one ever said AWA saved you. Parker taking you over in bankruptcy saved you.

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey luv, where's your new contract? Hummel has been in office a week!!!

 

[cleardirect]

They were probably briefed by the PHX reps and now understand the NIC is finished for real this time. The next DFR will be filed towards the APA.

Rational people if they know there is going to be a law suit will avoid that activity.

Why would the APA involve themselves using a list that will get them sued?

If the APA knows using the Nicolau will not cause a law suit and using anything else will cause a law suit. What do rational people do? I'd Parker knows using the Nicolau saves him money and does not delay a merger instead of delaying his merger and involves him in a law suit. What list does he use?mparker has learned after 7 years not to give east pilots any control.

Use the Nicolau no law suit. So simple even an east pilot can understand. The APA does not want to get caught up in your crap.

Btw you may have forgotten that judge Silver will rule soon. With a merger coming, merger costs and an unwilling APA what are the odds usapa spends hundreds of thousands and a year appealing her decision?

 

[fifidriver]

Is is this not the pot calling the kettle black, how many time have we heard AWA claim to have saved us, what a group of hypocrites.

I see it just a bit differently, I think that it's fairly obvious that HP saved AAA from Chap 7. The acquisition date was moved forward (back?) to an earlier date to make payroll. However, I believe that East pilots have returned the favor in spades. LOA93 wages for the last 7 years have more than paid that debt. Without that selfless sacrifice, I do not believe that the new company would have lasted without another Chap 11. And they did it out of their own pockets! You would think that Mr. Parker would at least recognize their sacrifices and reward them with something. Maybe a spot on the board? Maybe a simple "Thank You", a' la Jack Nicholson from "A Few Good Men"... Oh yeah... It has cost the West pilots a whole lot of money also... Just not quite as much as the East pilots. Thanks to all who made that happen!!!

 

[Claxon]

Rational people if they know there is going to be a law suit will avoid that activity.

Why would the APA involve themselves using a list that will get them sued?

If the APA knows using the Nicolau will not cause a law suit and using anything else will cause a law suit. What do rational people do? I'd Parker knows using the Nicolau saves him money and does not delay a merger instead of delaying his merger and involves him in a law suit. What list does he use?mparker has learned after 7 years not to give east pilots any control.

Use the Nicolau no law suit. So simple even an east pilot can understand. The APA does not want to get caught up in your crap.

Btw you may have forgotten that judge Silver will rule soon. With a merger coming, merger costs and an unwilling APA what are the odds usapa spends hundreds of thousands and a year appealing her decision?

Law suit? Of course. The good Dr. Jacobs is all in for another Leonidas Field Trip to the Cleaners. Why not? The APA will take you on like Parker, and spit you out. You have no legal standing, just a bunch of donations and a lawyer willing to ride with it. Do yourselves a favor and give it to a charity, you will start the path to recovery. Accept the fact USAPA absolutely end ran you, and continues to. APA is fully aware of that fact.

 

[Metroyet]

Law suit? Of course. The good Dr. Jacobs is all in for another Leonidas Field Trip to the Cleaners. Why not? The APA will take you on like Parker, and spit you out. You have no legal standing, just a bunch of donations and a lawyer willing to ride with it. Do yourselves a favor and give it to a charity, you will start the path to recovery. Accept the fact USAPA absolutely end ran you, and continues to. APA is fully aware of that fact.

Being a certified class IS LEGAL STANDING YOU MORON!