US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvn737s]

I am totally convinced that the WEST would vote overwhelmingly for min raises and , no min fleet....... just to get the NIC.
Don't hold your breath Westies.....

NICDOA
NPJB

Here's a little secret for ya, just between us...

USAPA will be lucky if they can get any raises and no fleet min PLUS huge increases in medical and disability premiums and FAR work rules.

Kirby should be off the table - he knows he doesn't have to offer USAPA anything that generous.

Can you confirm that NAC stands for Neutered And Clueless?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Eyes Wide Open - Know Your Section 19 (Discipline/Termination) Procedures

Eyes Wide Open - Know Your Section 19 (Discipline/Termination) Procedures. USAPA President Cleary is predicting pilot terminations that will apparently ensue from illegal job actions. Know the severe constraints on USAPA's ability to support you if you face this difficult situation.

See Story

 

[USA320Pilot]

I can't wrap my brain around USAPA's lawsuit, which seems disjointed. The NMB Mediator, Ms. Brown, and the declaratory judgement lawsuit in front of Judge Silver, are all the company needs to get this case dismissed. Not only is Cleary upseting most of the East pilots who want his recall, now he is going to piss off the NMB too.

See Story

I believe Cleary's unilateral action will be a slap in the face of Mediator Brown, who is the key person responsible to determine if the parties are "bargaining in good faith". USAPA's lawsuit, filed by the new PIC firm of O'Dywer and Bernstein, states "the company is violating status quo because the parties have not reach a tentative agreement."

What's illuminating and abundantly clear is that Section 22 of the CBA and Section 4 of the Transition Agreement requires an integrated seniority list before the parties can conclude negotiations.

Furthermore, I believe Cleary is totally out of control because the BPR didn't vote to file the lawsuit. According to PHX BPR Rep. David Braid, "The BPR did not know anything about this law suit. We were told that O'Dywer and Bernstein were hired to fix the conflict of interest the Pension investigation committee had. We were not told about this law suit until minutes before it was released to the pilots. If you look at the agenda for the conference call it is not on there. This is a complete surprise to the PHX reps. The CC was cancelled quickly after the call in system had some issues. It is now rescheduled for Tuesday. What is the BPR going to do about this? I don't know. I suppose some reps will agree to retroactively approve the spending of what could be $2 million from a decision of the president alone. A question for east pilots. What are the pilots going to tell their reps about the president making a decision like this without board approval or knowledge? Will the pilots go along with this or will they tell their reps to put a stop to it?"

USA320Pilot

 

[767one]

Eyes Wide Open - Know Your Section 19 (Discipline/Termination) Procedures

Eyes Wide Open - Know Your Section 19 (Discipline/Termination) Procedures. USAPA President Cleary is predicting pilot terminations that will apparently ensue from illegal job actions. Know the severe constraints on USAPA's ability to support you if you face this difficult situation.

See Story

usa320pilot,

The company will of course try to intimidate pilots, I have seen this myself. The key is to always fly like you train and fly per the fom. I have always tried to fly this way. If the company should attempt to terminate a pilot for flying the way they say you should fly I think they would be on pretty shakey ground. In most cases where a flight is late you can trace the problem to someone other than a pilot.


Regards,


Bob

 

[767one]

I'll bet you can't wait to be the first Age 65 retirement on the property. Think what your yard will look like then. The Garden of Eden.

Watch out for the asps.

N924ps,

Yes I think I'm ready for something other than airplanes. In July it will be 48 yrs since I started flying. I think my yard after retirement will be a bit smaller. 23 acres seemed like a good idea when I was 42 but now that I'm going on 64 it has become something akin to WORK! A smaller place in one of the many small precivil war towns in Md. looks very attractive. Maybe I can get caught up on my fishing and antique trains.


Regards,


Bob

 

[aquagreen73s]

I was being sarcastic.

Cleary's letter is vague and only says they filed the lawsuiit over violations of status quo. No mention of how status quo was violated.

The only violation I am aware of is the change in ACARS block logic, which favored the east pilots and hurt the West pilots, so I doubt usapa brought it up from the bottom of the grievence list to a Federal court docket.

Everybody knows the company's suit is ripe. The problem arises that it so closely mirrors Addington, and was even foretold by Wake and Bybee during Addington, that the scabs think they are going to get a pass because of Addington, which they might in a way, if Silver tells "johnny come lately" they missed their chance.

Nic, just saw your post. The ACARS block logic is a minor dispute and it's being handled by the System Board. USAPA can't get into federal court with a minor dispute, so they allege in paragraph 5 of their complaint that the company is in violation of Section 2 (First) of the RLA by intentionally failing to reach a joint collective bargaining agreement. Well, that's exactly what the company predicted in their declaratory action complaint filed last July. Reference, paragraph 5 of page 4 of the company's complaint. Yesterday, USAPA managed to completely undermine their own motion to dismiss. I don't think for a second that Cleary doesn't know this, but either he is running out of furniture to throw into the fire to keep the propaganda oven lit, or he knows that the East line pilots are at their breaking point, or both. LOA93 is a loss. Nothing is coming of the Address-gate. The PIC has accomplished nothing. The NAC is a joke. This is the part where karma is discovered to be a beaytch.

Edit: but I agree with you Nic, I've said all along that the company's dec action was ripe thanks to Cleary's threats of slow downs made verbally and in writing. What a moron. Yesterday just underscores why the dec action is ripe.

 

[mrbreeze]

Nic, just saw your post. The ACARS block logic is a minor dispute and it's being handled by the System Board. USAPA can't get into federal court with a minor dispute, so they allege in paragraph 5 of their complaint that the company is in violation of Section 2 (First) of the RLA by intentionally failing to reach a joint collective bargaining agreement. Well, that's exactly what the company predicted in their declaratory action complaint filed last July. Reference, paragraph 5 of page 4 of the company's complaint. Yesterday, USAPA managed to completely undermine their own motion to dismiss. I don't think for a second that Cleary doesn't know this, but either he is running out of furniture to throw into the fire to keep the propaganda oven lit, or he knows that the East line pilots are at their breaking point, or both. LOA93 is a loss. Nothing is coming of the Address-gate. The PIC has accomplished nothing. The NAC is a joke. This is the part where karma is discovered to be a beaytch.

Edit: but I agree with you Nic, I've said all along that the company's dec action was ripe thanks to Cleary's threats of slow downs made verbally and in writing. What a moron. Yesterday just underscores why the dec action is ripe.

Aqua,

How long has the ACARS dispute been going on? 5 yrs? It took them two days to change the logic to the company's benefit, and they have taken 5 yrs to change it back? c'mon.

That alone is proof of their breaking the status quo.

 

[nic4us]

Cleary is a complete idiot, and the head of the usapian,"we have no clue of the situation we are in" crowd.

Point of evidence, his letter telling the pilots about the new lawsuit.

He states, it has been 6 years since you emerged from bankruptcy. Um..hey clueless Mike..you never "emerged from bankruptcy". Your old company did not survive the last bankruptcy. Gone, kaput, nothing, nada. It is gone, just ask the folks who held stock.

 

[nic4us]

No doubt the company is violating Federal Labor Laws. There are now 510 outstanding grievances that the RLA requires to be settled expeditiously. At the current pace set by the company that is a 26 year backlog. There are also on average 145 new grievances being filed per year for status quo contract violations. Obviously when your new grievance won't be heard for 26+ years that is illegally circumventing the RLA grievance process. The RLA requires reasonably prompt settlement of outstanding grievances. I would expect as a remedy the court will through an injunction put the company on a strict timeline to settle the outstanding grievances.

The company is also negotiating in bad faith towards a new contract. It is quite clear the company does not want a new pilot contract and is stalling contract negotiations just like they have stalled the outstanding grievance settlements. That is a direct violation of labor law. The company is required to negotiate in good faith to reach a contract agreement. Section 22 is a required section for section 6 negotiations and the company must by law negotiate in good faith to reach an agreement with USAPA on all required contract sections. Refusing to negotiate section 22 or insisting on a proposal that the company knows will be rejected is bad faith and illegal. There are multiple ways to address through negotiation all parties section 22 concerns that would comply with all laws including DFR laws.

The company has denied that they have been stalling grievance and contract settlements and now they will have to prove it in court. With 6 years of zero progress on a pilot contract and a 26 year backlog of grievances the company is going to have lots of tap dancing and "splaining" to do in the New York District Court. And before you company cheerleaders get started blaming USAPA ain't going to work.....

underpants

Underpants,

Get back to us when you learn what "good faith" means.

PS..6 years without progress..?? really???.... Are you going to try and feed the same BS line as Cleary on this board.

Everybody knows who walked from the negotiating table. Who threw out all the progress and reopened every section. Who has used every turn of events to delay the eventual implementation of the Nic. The 6 years of delay rest firmly on the backs of the east pilots, and the last 3 years of delay can be directly attributed to usapa.

 

[mrbreeze]

Cleary is a complete idiot, and the head of the usapian,"we have no clue of the situation we are in" crowd.

Point of evidence, his letter telling the pilots about the new lawsuit.

He states, it has been 6 years since you emerged from bankruptcy. Um..hey clueless Mike..you never "emerged from bankruptcy". Your old company did not survive the last bankruptcy. Gone, kaput, nothing, nada. It is gone, just ask the folks who held stock.

Nic,
I can understand why you cling to that dream.....it's all you've got.....a winning lottery ticket and a pipe dream. As long as you guys will not admit that USAPA is moving on in their fight against this company, that is all you will ever have. You would never admit that USAPA is fighting to improve things in the West also...oh no, that is contrary to the lottery ticket belief. Good luck in cashing that ticket in, cause it is worthless.

After watching the PHX crew news I was hopeful that you guys were really putting some pressure on Doug to do something.....whether it was for the good of all, or not....and we apply pressure from the East to get Doug to "DO" something, so that we could move forward.

Whatever causes a change, I promise you that the lottery ticket is not involved.
breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

N924ps,

Yes I think I'm ready for something other than airplanes. In July it will be 48 yrs since I started flying. I think my yard after retirement will be a bit smaller. 23 acres seemed like a good idea when I was 42 but now that I'm going on 64 it has become something akin to WORK! A smaller place in one of the many small precivil war towns in Md. looks very attractive. Maybe I can get caught up on my fishing and antique trains.


Regards,


Bob

Hi Bob,

Even back on the ALPA boards you have been first, a gentleman, and second, a professional, always in tune with the whole pilot group's needs.

If I miss your retirement....long, sunny days and restful nights to you sir!

breeze

 

[snapthis]

Nic,
I can understand why you cling to that dream.....it's all you've got.....a winning lottery ticket and a pipe dream. As long as you guys will not admit that USAPA is moving on in their fight against this company, that is all you will ever have. You would never admit that USAPA is fighting to improve things in the West also...oh no, that is contrary to the lottery ticket belief. Good luck in cashing that ticket in, cause it is worthless.

After watching the PHX crew news I was hopeful that you guys were really putting some pressure on Doug to do something.....whether it was for the good of all, or not....and we apply pressure from the East to get Doug to "DO" something, so that we could move forward.

Whatever causes a change, I promise you that the lottery ticket is not involved.
breeze

There is a lottery ticket. You were holding it. You should thank your lucky stars that Douggie came a callin. Let's take a look back, HP was hiring and US Air was out of fuel, airspeed and altitude and about to drill another hole in the ground. After you fellas plopped yourselves on our couch, next thing we know our pilots are headed out the door.

You already cashed the lottery ticket, buddy. I plan on suing you and collecting some of you winnings and sitting on your couch in CLT.

 

[mrbreeze]

There is a lottery ticket. You were holding it. You should thank your lucky stars that Douggie came a callin. Let's take a look back, HP was hiring and US Air was out of fuel, airspeed and altitude and about to drill another hole in the ground. After you fellas plopped yourselves on our couch, next thing we know our pilots are headed out the door.

You already cashed the lottery ticket, buddy. I plan on suing you and collecting some of you winnings and sitting on your couch in CLT.

Bring it on, Meathead.

 

[streaman]

Article out of the Seattle Times pretty much nails USLESS AIR to its rightful place in the aviation world," It does not consider Alaska a good fit,accoding to US Airways president Scott Kirby,president of the Tempe Ariz. based airline. The outcome of that merger would be to take a cost structure thats profitable ( ALASKA) and make it unprofitable" he said.


Remember....IF I NEVER HAVE TO FLY THROUGH PHX ON USLESS AIR IT WILL BE ALL TO SOON.

 

[Pi brat]

. Btw, who is willing to be the sacrificial lamb that Kim Jong cleary is promising be slaughtered?

I nominated you.