US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CallawayGolf]

USAPA would rather delay in order to upgrade a few pilots. Despite all the money they are losing daily; the AFO's foolishly endorse this plan. You see, they can go from $85/hr to "Captain" at $125 under their beloved LOA93 and still make less than a narrow body F/O at SWA. Their ego's obscure their vision of reality and ultimately short their own pocketbook.

It's all OK though, USAPA 'leadership' is getting paid as if they were at Delta, at our expense. ($191,000) What did you earn?



USAPA = Going nowhere, fast.

Exactly. USAPA has one main purpose which is to DELAY they NIC. That's why I find it so funny that east supporters come on here expecting anyone to actually believe that west supporters or Management is the actual cause of stalled negotiations. Unless they are hoping to convince the uniformed or ignorant east pilots, these posters are accomplishing the same thing as USAPA has accomplished in the past three years – absolutely nothing.

 

[cactusboy53]

Thousands of OTHER seniority arbitrations that are NOT pilots say YOUR wrong!!

Oh, holier than thou pilots, I genuflect to your GODLINESS and your all knowing, all seeing wisdom! I worked 24 years here, furlough pilots are entitled to the value of their voice, thier VOTE and their years of service. If YOU feel that way why don't YOU give up YOUR job so a furloughed West Pilot can have it???? You are a POMPUS A$$ and a hippocryte.

Again, confirming what I've been told about you. USAPA, ALPA, SWAPA, APA, etc....ALL PILOTS!!! PILOTS MADE THIS MESS! Get out of your own feces, wipe your face off and get real, traitor!

Easy there Susan. If you really want to go by DOH that badly, then you simply need to put on an apron & start doing safety demos with the flight attendants.

Otherwise you will have to eventually join the rest of our little group....."The Nic will Stick". The Nicolau award is the ONLY seniority list that will be used. In the meantime you are losing MILLIONS of DOLLARS that is going straight into Parker & LCC's pocket.

If you wish to join the not-so-silent majority, join us at www.refrormusapa.com

We can force changes on USAPA that will actually make this a true union for ALL US AIRWAYS pilots.

 

[luvn737s]

Luv9, et.al.


Please keep us updated on today's Philly Turd Swirl and let us know whether they go down the drain clockwise or counter-clockwise.

 

[CallawayGolf]

All true with one caveat. Should the judge rule that the Nic is the only seniority list management can use (they already accepted it, remember) without exposure to collusion ucrapa can appeal all they want. Their appeal will be irrelevant. Parker will have the answer he already knows he will get and can now hide behind the court when he finally tells ucrapa that the Nic is it.

This is all about his fear of an east meltdown and its subsequent harm to the company. Read the wording of his request for DJ to get a good understanding of this. The court will have done his dirty work for him and he will have a pretty strong case against ucrapa should the east melt down. This is a pretty limp dick way of handling the duties of CEO but I believe it's his way.

I disagree. Are you suggesting that east/USAPA’s pathological unwillingness to accept the NIC could be overcome by a more forceful Management approach? Are you suggesting that if Parker stood up and said as of today that he has accepted the NIC and he will not accept any other proposal from USAPA that this would somehow end USAPA’s fool’s errand of trying to get a DOH list in for section 22? If Bradford’s attorney shopping and the Addington case didn’t alter the east’s course of action, what makes you think Parker could suddenly change all of that by saying anything different?

While I’m sure Management doesn’t want to see an east meltdown on a scale larger than when the NIC came out, I don’t believe they are taking any actions based on keeping a meltdown in check. The RLA and Parker’s fiduciary responsibility to the Shareholders prevents him from taking some kind of Rambo inspired action against USAPA.

Finally, if you are suggesting that Parker could make the whole problem go away by throwing money at it, I would also suggest that this isn’t a viable approach. While Parker doesn’t lack authority and influence with the BOD, he most certainly cannot go and offer USAPA $2, $4, $6, or $8 hundred million dollars more in annual salaries without the BOD approval. IMO there is no way the BOD would approve such an offer because the value in return of achieving a JCBA just doesn’t exist and the Company’s operating income does not support such a massive increase in costs just to placate the east pilot’s anger over not getting what they wanted out of a binding arbitration award.

The fault in all of this is USAPA’s empowered by the narcissistic contingent of reality-challenged east pilots. If the courts and the NMB can’t force USAPA to accept the NIC, then what do you really expect Parker to do?

 

[BoeingBoy]

While I’m sure Management doesn’t want to see an east meltdown on a scale larger than when the NIC came out, I don’t believe they are taking any actions based on keeping a meltdown in check.

After watching the PHX crew news Parker's position about USAPA brings the phrase "give them enough rope to hang themselves with" comes to mind...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

BTW, objector, you CAN'T vote so your OPINION means.....NOTHING because you can't vote therefore voice means.....wait for it....NOTHING!!!

How many years from now do they become responsible for what happens here?
That's for YOU to decide....not until then.

Hey end-...you are quite wrong about that vote thingy. As an objector, (a standing guaranteed him under labor law) Trader will indeed have a vote when we kick the scab union to the curb. i.e. Trader still has the only vote that matters.

Also, it is not how many years from now. usapa became responsible the day they were elected. Responsible for representing ALL USAIRWAYS PILOTS, including those whose seniority they wish to steal. See the hole in Seeham's arguements yet. usapa cannot f over the West for your benefit. Majority status, "cost neutral contract", all that BS does not mean Dick.

Bottom line. The only system seniority list that will ever be used at LCC is the Nic. Vote no to the Nic all you want, or vote yes on the DFR DOH contract that you will never see. I will remain an objector and use my trump card vote of my lawyer suing your scab union for its illegal disciminatory practices.

I know you have been told this before....but I will tell you again....no DOH for you!!!

 

[nevergiveup]

Easy there Susan. If you really want to go by DOH that badly, then you simply need to put on an apron & start doing safety demos with the flight attendants.

Otherwise you will have to eventually join the rest of our little group....."The Nic will Stick". The Nicolau award is the ONLY seniority list that will be used. In the meantime you are losing MILLIONS of DOLLARS that is going straight into Parker & LCC's pocket.

If you wish to join the not-so-silent majority, join us at www.refrormusapa.com

We can force changes on USAPA that will actually make this a true union for ALL US AIRWAYS pilots.

NIC...good for the few...bad for the many.

 

[nic4us]

After watching the PHX crew news Parker's position about USAPA brings the phrase "give them enough rope to hang themselves with" comes to mind...

Jim

That is what I took away from it.

Parker kept saying..."you have a DFR issue"..."you don't feel you are being represented" etc...

He was saying, you guys need to figure out how to get rid of usapa, because the company has to deal with the bargaining agent, but we sure as hell don't have to collude with usapa in a DFR.

I guess Parker missed Seeham's offer of a "cost neutral" DFR contract. Either that, or the company has done the cost analysis, and having to pay the West hundreds of millions for colluding with usapa in a blatant DFR, that a jury has already found them liable for once, just does not make it so "cost neutral".

 

[BoeingBoy]

That is what I took away from it.

Parker kept saying..."you have a DFR issue"..."you don't feel you are being represented" etc...

I was thinking more of Parker's comment about the disruption going on in the east. It sorta got buried in all the talk of DFR's, etc, but Parker seemed to be hinting at what's to come...

Jim

 

[Barrister]

That is what I took away from it.

Parker kept saying..."you have a DFR issue"..."you don't feel you are being represented" etc...

He was saying, you guys need to figure out how to get rid of usapa, because the company has to deal with the bargaining agent, but we sure as hell don't have to collude with usapa in a DFR.

I guess Parker missed Seeham's offer of a "cost neutral" DFR contract. Either that, or the company has done the cost analysis, and having to pay the West hundreds of millions for colluding with usapa in a blatant DFR, that a jury has already found them liable for once, just does not make it so "cost neutral".

You morons just make it up as you go along don't ya!!!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[BoeingBoy]

You morons just make it up as you go along don't ya!!!!!!

Nah, luvthe9, MM, BS, Nosum and the like make up enough for everyone...

Parker "casually" mentioned a couple of things that are hand grenades just waiting to be thrown in USAPA's foxhole...

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

USAPAwatch: Schizophrenic
By now you have probably seen one of the yellow lanyards worn by some east pilots screaming "Safety First" to anyone who will listen. As we've previously discussed we believe these lanyards to be component of a larger job action orchestrated by USAPA.

Tomorrow, USAPA plans a so called “solidarity march” at the Philadelphia Airport as part of their greater strategy of frightening the general public using manufactured safety concerns. They naively believe that disrupting the operation and encouraging people to book away from our airline will somehow compel Mr. Parker to open his wallet and offer an industry standard contract. The last time we checked, the highest paid airline pilots in the world fly for the most financially stable companies. Illegally harming the airline and jeopardizing the livelihoods of all US Airways employees is not only reckless but a recipe destined for disaster. Like you, we were baffled by the following statement in USAPA's plea for participation in their planned Philadelphia march:

"As we get closer to the end game at the negotiating table, it's the perfect time for this public display of solidarity."

Did we miss something? We've combed the most recent NAC updates and can find absolutely no evidence that progress is being made at the negotiating table. In fact, most of the recent updates by the NAC complain about their inability to make any forward movement on even the most trivial of issues. The tone conveyed by First Officer D'Iorio is best described as one of resignation as his committee is continually outmaneuvered by a far superior management negotiating team. Far from an end game, it seems we are moving ever so closer to the parking lot. Progress by The NAC is measured by the size of the concessions given to appease the mediator, not gains achieved.

Many believe that USAPA isn't interested in achieving a contract. The theory is that the junior segment of the east seniority list is driving a plan to delay negotiations as much as possible in order to "upgrade" via attrition once age 65 retirements start. They ignore the financial foolishness of this plan as their separate operations career expectation would only afford a small minority of this subset a move from the right seat of a narrow body to the right seat of a wide body. Our industry peers flying narrow body aircraft already out earn every single east wide body pilot. The notion that there will be enough captain and narrow body FO seats available for the majority of the junior first officers is wishful thinking on behalf of this group. It's unfortunate that USAPA is concealing the reality that our retirement numbers are not stove pipe and the financial cost of this strategy is staggering.

There is also a faction of east pilots who believe USAPA's propaganda that the seniority dispute was resolved by the 9th Circuit. They subscribe to the notion that walking in circles in Philadelphia will translate into progress at the negotiating table. They also believe in the fantasy that USAPA is capable of completing a contract. They completely dismiss or know little about the Company's lawsuit filed in Federal Court against both USAPA and the west pilots. They ignore the reality that the Company is legally bound to the terms of the Transition Agreement and will never bargain away from the Nicolau list unless given complete immunity from the courts. The likelihood of court ordered immunity is just south of zero.

If you plan on attending USAPA's march tomorrow, we suggest you take a moment to assess the current situation and ascertain exactly what you expect from your time commitment. Do you side with the separate ops forever crowd or do you believe that walking in circles will somehow compel Mr. Parker to drop his lawsuit, accept a DOH list, and toss a bunch of cash on the table? Remember, the majority of those with whom you walk tomorrow will be compensated for their time through USAPA's overly generous flight pay loss program.

Knowing where you stand and what you expect is very important because we firmly believe that not only is USAPA incapable of reaching a TA, but it is firmly committed to delaying any progress as much as possible under the delusion that east attrition alone will advance their core constituency.

Our sources have confirmed that USAPA has been told by numerous advisors that the Nicolau award cannot be avoided. Eventually it will be the combined seniority list if the majority chooses to ratify a contract. USAPA is also keenly aware that mid-seniority range captains are fatigued and losing their patience with the separate ops crowd. USAPA has reduced its entire existence to pandering to competing segments of the east pilot group in order to maintain its quickly evaporating sphere of influence.

This multiple personality disorder is commonly referred to as schizophrenia. This type of mental illness exhibited by our union cannot be cured; possibly controlled, but never cured.


Unfortunately for all US Airways employees, Mr. Parker seems perfectly content with USAPA's reckless behavior. Thus far, he has refused to intervene as USAPA attempts to destroy our trust with the traveling public for its own selfish gain.

We often wonder, just who is in charge of our airline?

Mr. Cleary or Mr. Parker?



USAPA = Harold Camping would be proud.

Thats hilarious who writes that stuff just makin it up, but hey this wasn't made up that "SAFETY " word seems to pop up everywhere! The pilots also discussed the need to develop common strategies to ensure that pilot interests in safety, security, training and many other areas receive sufficient attention as management integrates the two operations of Continental and United and moves toward a single operating certificate.

“We are not just passengers,” said Capt. Morse. “We need to help drive this ship.”

Capt. Pierce elaborated, “As we build our new airline, we encourage management to carefully and deliberately draw upon the best practices of both our legacy airlines and not implement what is purely economically attractive or simply feasible. That is true for the operation of the new United as well as for our new contract.”
http://www.alpa.org/Portals/Alpa/PressRoom/PressReleases/2011/5-24-11_11.UALCAL.htm Read more on safety!
ALPA represents nearly 53,000 pilots at 39 airlines in the United States and Canada including approximately 5000 pilots at Continental and 7000 at United.

###

ALPA Contacts:
Dave Kelly Amy Flanagan
United MEC Continental MEC
847/292-1708 281/925-4601
[email protected] [email protected]

 

[nic4us]

You morons just make it up as you go along don't ya!!!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

Which part am I making up?

The part about a union having a duty of fair representation?

The part about the company will not collude with a union violating that duty?

The part about usapa being found liable in less than two hours of deliberation by a jury?

The part about Seeham being a little lawyer? I measured him when he ran past the height estimator near the door of the DFR convenience store, where he bought a golden goose from a bunch of disgruntled malcontent shop owners.

Okay..okay..you got me Barrister....I did make up the part about a DFR convenience store.

 

[nic4us]

Nah, luvthe9, MM, BS, Nosum and the like make up enough for everyone...

Parker "casually" mentioned a couple of things that are hand grenades just waiting to be thrown in USAPA's foxhole...

Jim

My objectivity must be skewed by my skin in the game.

Care to point out what Parker said, and reference a particular section of video. I would like to watch it again without going through the whole thing, and see if I can get a take on what you are hinting at.

 

[crazystnic]

That is what I took away from it.

Parker kept saying..."you have a DFR issue"..."you don't feel you are being represented" etc...

He was saying, you guys need to figure out how to get rid of usapa, because the company has to deal with the bargaining agent, but we sure as hell don't have to collude with usapa in a DFR.

I guess Parker missed Seeham's offer of a "cost neutral" DFR contract. Either that, or the company has done the cost analysis, and having to pay the West hundreds of millions for colluding with usapa in a blatant DFR, that a jury has already found them liable for once, just does not make it so "cost neutral".

******************************
I'm glad you guys are such big Parker supporters considering he is screwing all of us at every turn....
Have you ever heard such a CEO with such contempt for his employees.... ?? Not many.. he is rising to the top of the list, just listen to him.

He wont give anything... It must be taken....