US Pilots Labor Discussion

[crazystnic]

Metroyet,

Don't know what it will be like in 5 years except that I will be 3 yrs. in to catching up on my fishing unless I hit the powerball before dec. 2012.

Regards,

Bob

**********************

Hey Bob,

I hope after DEC 2012 I never see you on this board!!!!

Jim quotes that life has never been better and he enjoys retirement... Hell of a way to enjoy retirement .. spending every day on this board... Heck I work here and I'm not here that much!

 

[No Land Green]

It is very funny how all the east posters know everyones identity, even on an anonymous forum.

I guess it is possible that there is only one DCA 320 CPT who lives in PHX, so I should not have mentioned it.

What's so funny is that we know much more than you think we do.............Maybe that's because many of us have been here for more than a quarter century...........

 

[No Land Green]

Enjoy LOA 93 until you retire.

Hate has been a Boeing Heavy driver for as long as I've known him. I think eventually we can get him on the 330........

 

[No Land Green]

*********************


Jim quotes that life has never been better and he enjoys retirement... Hell of a way to enjoy retirement .. spending every day on this board...

YEP and less than 50 posts from 13,000..........Man that is the way retirement should be..............

 

[luvthe9]

It's amazing to me that someone like yourself is so willing to sacrifice so much for so little...so YOU voted for a CBA that THEY put forth that was WORSE??? What kind of logic was that? If anything, you all should have voted NO so as your vote DID'NT support the very CBA that the PHL and PIT reps put out. Disingenious if you ask me.(opinion). Pot meet kettle.

It's called FEAR.

 

[traderjake]

It's called FEAR.

Some people confuse courage with being stupid.

If you don't know the difference between negotiating a contract inside and outside of bankruptcy there's no hope for you.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Case law does not support your position. You didn't watch the latest PHX crew news....

Care to cite a case with the same fact base as this? Crew news - yes, I did watch it and am waiting for an eastie to quote the part I found most enlightening.

If anything, you all should have voted NO so as your vote DID'NT support the very CBA that the PHL and PIT reps put out.

I do love the revisionist history - were you the one whose kid had the "Let My Daddy Vote" sign? The PHL and PIT reps tried to stop the "Get an agreement, any agreement" crowd, unsuccessfully due to the gang of fearful GAG followers I might add.

Jim

 

[traderjake]

It's amazing to me that someone like yourself is so willing to sacrifice so much for so little...so YOU voted for a CBA that THEY put forth that was WORSE??? What kind of logic was that? If anything, you all should have voted NO so as your vote DID'NT support the very CBA that the PHL and PIT reps put out. Disingenious if you ask me.(opinion). Pot meet kettle.

What happens when you down a contract in bankruptcy?

The judge imposes one.

If you're an investor and you can't get bankruptcy deal done on your terms what would you do?

You'd pull your financing.

 

[end_of_alpa]

What happens when you down a contract in bankruptcy?

The judge imposes one.

If you're an investor and you can't get bankruptcy deal done on your terms what would you do?

You'd pull your financing.

By jove, I think you got it!!! So don't "blame" the so called "gang of four" when the very threat YOU speak of could have brought a lawsuit upon THEM for NOT sending a contract...ANY CONTRACT to you...you who VOTED for it...for YOUR approval. You voted for it so you could "theoretically" control a possible final outcome that would most likely have SEVERE repercussions for your future.

Don't "blame" them for YOUR voting choice...one that I might add a "majority" voted for (you were not alone). You decided, LIVE WITH IT and quit pointing the finger. I know who you are and I seriously doubt many agree with YOUR position on the East. I have dicussed this issue with quite a few pilots and they live with the decision. Tell you what, come to the next BPR meeting and well debate it. I'd rather meet you in the flesh than discuss it here. Unless you are an objector, then don't waste my time.

 

[cactusboy53]

What's funny is your furloughed that come east will be on a widebody long before you will, can't wait for Kasher to come in, gees you guys will come so unglued, nothing will be funnier than watching that. Does anyone that go to those road shows out west really understand Parker does not like you guys, it's so entertaining to watch your group in action (well really it's sad), do you think Parker has your back? Enjoy the heat out there brother!!!

Someone take the crack pipe away from Luv! I think he's over dosing! What a maroon.

 

[nic4us]

What's so funny is that we know much more than you think we do.............Maybe that's because many of us have been here for more than a quarter century...........

1/4 century...really???

Well junior, even with all that experience, I see usapa still has not figured out that nobody is paying any attention to them, and is going to march in PHL again.

hmmm.....maybe I will show up and talk to the reporters, and tell them they are wasting their time covering a story about a "union" that is imposing its own delay toward a contract, and is dumb enough to display their complete misunderstanding of the position they are in to the public.

Oh, who am I kidding....there won't be any reporters.

 

[Ames]

There you go. Feel better? It is sort of weird. You are the guys making $20+ more an hour than us for Group II, your reserve system is better, you get more vacation, red flag trips, you know how your contract is better than ours (hell, you tell us at every opportunity) but correct me if I am wrong (trust me I know you will) you are the ones self destructing. Why?

Sad

The only ones self destructing are the eastholes. Your bogus "on board" work action is a failure and an embarrassment. Your silly little picket tomorrow will be another. The west is tired of Parker hiding behind the court system and carrying his water in court. He truly is afraid of your eastholes because he knows you truly will self destruct if you don't get your way.... all at the expense of the company.

I'm glad you realize how superior our contract is. All the while you scream how we drag the industry down. Enjoy knowing that as you survive on your LOA 93 for the duration of your self destructive hissy fit.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Care to cite a case with the same fact base as this? Crew news - yes, I did watch it and am waiting for an eastie to quote the part I found most enlightening.



I do love the revisionist history - were you the one whose kid had the "Let My Daddy Vote" sign? The PHL and PIT reps tried to stop the "Get an agreement, any agreement" crowd, unsuccessfully due to the gang of fearful GAG followers I might add.

Jim

So, Jim, enlighten me. What part do YOU speak of?

I don't know about the "Let My Daddy Vote" sign, however, are you one that wishes to DENY pilots the right to vote? That is tyranny...similar to Empire tyranny we all speak of. Since you relish to relive past history, here is your defining principle of Piedmont PIETY and your holier than thou apostate, Tory Vaughaun. Here is what HE had to say about Empire (which could have very well been American West as well, fill in the blank Jim because YOU ARE THE BEST!):

"I am one of those Piedmont pilots who stood up in an LEC meeting in ORF back when we were discussing PAI/Empire and made the case for not giving you DOH. I wasn't the only one but I was one of those demanding what we did. Yes, that was a greedy position to take . In retrospect I wish we would have given you C and R's that would have implemented DOH after a time period. I was trying to protect my career and family and that was the justification for my actions back then. It could have been handled better but you also failed to mention that we did give you C and R's like DOH protection in SYR and Furlough by DOH. These items were also included in the Kagel award. Where the problem came in was another merger that we couldn't have foreseen back in 1986. If Piedmont had stayed Piedmont I truly believe you wouldn't have written your post above. However we have the fact that there were several mergers along the way including PSA, US Air, Shuttle, and now America West. We brought several items to the table including wide bodies that many original Piedmont pilots were kept off of for many years because of DOH. In addition our pension plan was the one that brought the lump sum option to the table that many original Piedmont pilots will never see while some others from US Air and PSA obtained that."

As far as case law, I can predict the outcome BASED ON THE RECORD, and I ASSURE YOU I have read, briefed AND presented the very legal arguments that are before the court and REJECTED by the Ninth Circuit. The Ninth, btw, was predictable with a high degree of certainty of the outcome. Jacobs rolled the dice on Bybee when he KNEW his background of arbitration law...Bybee wrote the appelate opinion on one of the longest lasting and biggest arbitration cases to come about in the Ninth....USA vs. Park Place. And Jacobs was able to sway HIM to write the disenting opinion in OUR case. What Jacobs failed to tell him, all the while QUOTING the Federal Arbitration Act (listen to the oral arguments) was that the Supreme Court in Circuit City Stores v. Adams the Federal Arbitration Act does NOT APPLY TO TRANSPORTATION WORKERS....aka R-L-A!!!

"A provision in respondent’s application for work at petitioner electronics
retailer required all employment disputes to be settled by arbitration.
After he was hired, respondent filed a state-law employment
discrimination action against petitioner, which then sued in federal
court to enjoin the state-court action and to compel arbitration pursuant
to the Federal Arbitration Act (FAA). The District Court entered
the requested order. The Ninth Circuit reversed, interpreting
§1 of the FAA— which excludes from that Act’s coverage “contracts of
employment of seamen, railroad employees, or any other class of
workers engaged in foreign or interstate commerce”— to exempt all
employment contracts from the FAA’s reach.
Held: The §1 exemption is confined to transportation workers."

As far as the PHX crew news, why don't you listen to the last two minutes of Parker with the title "this i'snt about $1,500". It starts with "let me get to this thought"...

Jim, you "parrot" what Jacobs law firm throws out yet you do NO legal work for yourself. You ask for a case where other unions have done what we have done. There have been unions under NLRB, in fact one went to the Supreme Court but the issue was ruled MOOT while it was ther and dismissed. However, one dissenting Justice thought the case should have been heard on the merits....here is the jist:

the union (AFL at the time) agreed to an seniority integration board which decided the merger of the two unions (both AFL) should go DOH (imagine that). Nine out of ten of the workers in the larger group thought the merger should have stapled the smaller group so they voting in the CIO. They then entailed the smaller group and were sued in state court for a DFR. The jury found them not guilty and so the appeal. Unfortunately, the record somehow became muddled during the appeal and the Supreme Court believed the issue should be rendered moot and was therefore denied. The disent thought the discussion should have continued on the merits.

That is the best I can remember from memory and I cannot recall the case. But this HAS happened before. Why don't YOU cite a case where the MINORITY won the DFR on the same basis??? If the shoe fits.....

 

[traderjake]

Don't "blame" them for YOUR voting choice...one that I might add a "majority" voted for (you were not alone). You decided, LIVE WITH IT and quit pointing the finger. I know who you are and I seriously doubt many agree with YOUR position on the East. I have dicussed this issue with quite a few pilots and they live with the decision. Tell you what, come to the next BPR meeting and well debate it. I'd rather meet you in the flesh than discuss it here. Unless you are an objector, then don't waste my time.

I am an objector. If you know who I am then you can talk to me in the crew room.

USAPA's been on the property for 3 years and we're not in bankruptcy now.

How many years from now do they become responsible for what happens here?

If they'd focus on getting a contract instead of stealing jobs from the West we might get a pay raise.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I am an objector. If you know who I am then you can talk to me in the crew room.

USAPA's been on the property for 3 years and we're not in bankruptcy now.

How many years from now do they become responsible for what happens here?

If they'd focus on getting a contract instead of stealing jobs from the West we might get a pay raise.

It's great how you "change the subject". I won the first round of YOUR BullS--t.
So, Next topic:

"USAPA" is no more STEALING jobs than Parker wants to give you "industry standard" wages. Don't believe me? Do YOU watch the crew news??? He just said it again...the seniority issue is a separate issue then keeping us on separate contracts, which HE said he doesn't want to do. Listen to the PHX crew news at "No Contract Keeps Pay Low".

Speaking of CONTRACT, under the East CBA, which is a "condition precedent" to the transition agreement, and contrary to West pilots belief, LEGALLY the furloughed pilots on the East at the time of the merger may not have had a voice and a VOTE when it came to pay and working conditions, but when it came to FURLOUGH AND RECALL RIGHTS, USAPA preserved THEIR LEGAL RIGHTS UNDER THE LMRDA to VOICE their concerns and VOTE their position regarding the seniority integration REGARDLESS of the "good standing" provisions in the ALPA negotiated CBA....a "merger policy" that was contrary to the LMRDA. And that, SIR, is the LAW and the FACT of the matter. Sounds like East guys junior to you should forget about honoring THEIR juniority to you and tell the company they'll fly for less money....oh, I forgot, ALPA already negotiated and religated them to purgatory on MDA and J4J. You see, they DO have value Traitor! THAT IS THE LAW!

Just what I've been told about you, it's all about....YOU!!! Traitor Jak...it fits.

BTW, objector, you CAN'T vote so your OPINION means.....NOTHING because you can't vote therefore voice means.....wait for it....NOTHING!!! However, I will talk to you anywhere, you scare me NOT! Responsibility starts with YOU'RE being a member in good standing so at least you could voice and vote your opinion. You are a pilot yet YOU want everyone ELSE to do the heavy lifting...."not I said the pig".

How many years from now do they become responsible for what happens here?
That's for YOU to decide....not until then.

That's what I also heard about you...all mouth, no bark, no bite.