US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Ames]

80% of WEST pilots below EAST pilots furloughed when ? When most of the WEST pilots weren't even old enough to vote? Or better yet have an ATP!

To answer your question, they were furloughed when the acquisition was announced and subsequently consummated in 2005. AWA pilots had ATP's and were voting then.

Can't wait to see what nonsense you follow this one up with!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Someone referred to me as "first officer Ames" many posts back. You guys state this as if it were some kind of put down. Can your egos really be that big? Is your self esteem really that low?

PS: do you really know that we're first officers?

Really must have bruised the ole ego if you held that in there so long, look at it this way , you are correct, some of the posters could be second officers(IRO) heck those poor guys it takes 2, yes 2 of those guys to go to TLV! Man do they feel insulted!MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

To answer your question, they were furloughed when the acquisition was announced and subsequently consummated in 2005. AWA pilots had ATP's and were voting then.

Can't wait to see what nonsense you follow this one up with!

Those pilots were hired way before the merger was announced, check your facts the EAST furloughed NO pilots when the merger was announced! There were some on furlough at the time, hired when some WEST pilots couldn't vote or have an ATP!

 

[luvthe9]

Better go back and look at the non-trial in Phoenix. Your attorneys conceded that USAPA had not breached, its DFR responsibilities as it relates to arbitrary or discriminatory behavior. The whole case was predicated on USAPA's good faith responsibilities and even then the judge refused to instruct the jury as to the standard as defined by SCOTUS. It's no wonder the 9th Circuit dealt with the appeal the way they chose, citing the very definition and SCOTUS precedent where it was established.

If I were a betting man, I wouldn't trumpet anything that came out of that trial as it was clearly a results manufactured proceeding by an activist judge. You can bet your bottom dollar, those issues will be brought forth in the case before Judge Silver as well as your company's arguments to remove itself as a party to the Addington litigation as well as Wake releasing them as a co-defendant.

The first two requests your company makes in its suit have already been answered by the Ninth Circuit and they know that. Their last request to be indemnified presupposes so many sequential events that if Addington was deemed not ripe, there isn't a snowballs chance in hell that a court will act on its request.

When the Ninth ruled, that sealed the deal. It doesn't matter where any case goes, when it makes it back there, they will rule consistent with their just published opinion. It doesn't matter what 3 judges are pulled, courts at the appellate level do not rule or publish against themselves. The finality of their decision was evidenced when no judge vote in the affirmative on the En Banc petition. Judges at that level understand their is to much litigation in this country as it is, and do not engage in the back and forth you see in congress. At least the Appellate courts have maintained that level of respect for each other and the legal process.

Here it is Clear Direct. Right before your very eyes. Disagree all you want. Between this guy and Baptiste and Wilder, your case is figured out and closed. Ignore, and you will, at YOUR PERIL.

 

[luvthe9]

Did Jacobs clerk for Silver?

 

[Hate2fly]

Did Jacobs clerk for Silver?

The westies thought they would get a couple of favorable judges in the 9th. They did get the bush boy wacko, water board specialist. The desert judges buddy. Too bad! The 9th was way to smart to get caught up in that mess! Talk about trying to distance themselves from a couple of bush boy's. Jacobs clerked for Silverman. He thought he had it in the bag!

Hate

 

[Pi brat]

Its a moral thing. You and I wouldn't understand even if he revealed it.

I know. I was looking for a moral compass on ebay but couldn't afford one on LOA 93 pay! There was one slightly bent one at a good price but it said not available to anyone east of the Mississippi.

 

[Pi brat]

Do you agree with usapa’s DOH and current announced C&R? Or are you willing to use the Nicolau?

Well let’s see. If you are a good union pilot that supports USAPA. Usapa’s position is to put PHX pilots on a reservation for 10 years. Those are the C&R. Using DOH places 80% of west pilot below FURLOUGHED east pilots. So there is no way anyone would willing leave the reservation to exercise DOH off the reservation. Using DOH the top 3000 pilots only include 286 west pilots. The top 3500 using DOH includes 400 west pilots.
You support the union therefore you must support the C&R. Therefore you want to place the west pilots on a reservation. Continued separate ops for the next 10 years.

I believed they tried that in the south. Separate but equal. The problem is it was never quite ever equal.

The situational ethics of others? Guess I touch a nerve when you are forced to look at your own actions. The harsh reality of the truth.

Why the questions big boy? You told me what I believed, so why are you asking me now? I have stated my views on here, so as I said, go find those posts that led you to your conclusions, or admit you are wrong.

 

[Pi brat]

Someone referred to me as "first officer Ames" many posts back. You guys state this as if it were some kind of put down. Can your egos really be that big? Is your self esteem really that low?

PS: do you really know that we're first officers?

It was probably me that referred to you as F/O, as I did Cleardirect. Not a jab at all at the position, but at the stupid west coined term angry F/O club.

I would rather be an A330 F/O right now, but it is such a good job my seniority is better as a captain.

A lot of the most passionate people in this fight are F/Os, on both sides, because they have the most to lose when the pie is split up.

I don't know that you and clear are F/Os, but from your posts I'd bet a dollar on it.

 

[luvthe9]

I know. I was looking for a moral compass on ebay but couldn't afford one on LOA 93 pay! There was one slightly bent one at a good price but it said not available to anyone east of the Mississippi.

Yes, the LOA 93 pay they love to talk about. They don't bring up the fact they get one pay for all jets. So if you are on the 75, you are getting more, plus the 10k coming up Dec 31. It is such a hardship. Do the math. You make more than they do.

 

[luvthe9]

It was probably me that referred to you as F/O, as I did Cleardirect. Not a jab at all at the position, but at the stupid west coined term angry F/O club.

I would rather be an A330 F/O right now, but it is such a good job my seniority is better as a captain.

A lot of the most passionate people in this fight are F/Os, on both sides, because they have the most to lose when the pie is split up.

I don't know that you and clear are F/Os, but from your posts I'd bet a dollar on it.

I would wager that Clear is on the street or not even a pilot. There is no way you can be on every hour, every day, and work here.

 

[cleardirect]

Clear Direct- remember the disagreement on the 9th? Who cares if you disagree? No rant, and the fact you disagree means nothing factually. Every legal horse you have ridden hard has collapsed. Every lawyer in your employ has had a basic and fatal flaw with regard to a very simple legal concept:ripeness.Why don't you ask Jacobs how he could go for damage when there was none? Didn't one of you have the intelligence to see such a basic concept? So the fact you and your legal trust disagrees, means nothing. In fact the concept that they disagree means more disappointment ahead for you. For they still lack the basic understanding of INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS. More education on this issue forthcoming. The fact your half baked legal squad comes on this board repeatedly urging you on with absolutely specious advice and analogy is encouraging to the East. It means more money down the drain, and on the bottom of the pipe is Jacobs. Hopefully he will build a vacation home or put his kids through college with the money. Gather up the Legion of leonidas once more. Into the battle of INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS. One more time. Baptiste and Wilder.And you really don't have to do that. ROACLT has given all of you an education right in your very face, yet you disagree and ignore. He will be proven to be right on, again. Save yourself some money. You are beaten even before you saddle up again.

Really! Every legal horse we have ridden. You do recall the RICO suit right? The one where usapa falsely accused several west pilots of RICO. What was the outcome? I will remind you since you seem to have forgotten.

NC Federal judge Dismissed with prejudice,
Fourth Circuit AFFIRMED.

You start by accusing us of having biased judges. When I ask for facts you attack the lawyers. How about showing us some proof that the judges were biased. The outcome does not prove a case.

What do you care what we do with our money? It is not forced like usapa dues.

Take a look at the crew news and the company filings. The ninth ruled only on ripeness not the merits. A jury found usapa liable. If uspa decides to do the same DFR action again we will most likely get the same result again.

BTW where is the LOA 93 answer? That thing was done in Feb. Still waiting.

 

[cleardirect]

I would wager that Clear is on the street or not even a pilot. There is no way you can be on every hour, every day, and work here.

Oh yes here we go. You disagree with me so I have no business being here. I must be really junior or not even a pilot.

You forgot to call me a girl too.

You guys are so predictable and unimaginative.

 

[Pi brat]

You guys are so predictable and unimaginative.

Yes. I'm waiting.

 

[luvthe9]

Really! Every legal horse we have ridden. You do recall the RICO suit right? The one where usapa falsely accused several west pilots of RICO. What was the outcome? I will remind you since you seem to have forgotten.

NC Federal judge Dismissed with prejudice,
Fourth Circuit AFFIRMED.

You start by accusing us of having biased judges. When I ask for facts you attack the lawyers. How about showing us some proof that the judges were biased. The outcome does not prove a case.

What do you care what we do with our money? It is not forced like usapa dues.

Take a look at the crew news and the company filings. The ninth ruled only on ripeness not the merits. A jury found usapa liable. If uspa decides to do the same DFR action again we will most likely get the same result again.

BTW where is the LOA 93 answer? That thing was done in Feb. Still waiting.

Oh yes, the RICO deal. Who cares? That means nothing where the rubber hits the road. Where it really counts? your legal team shoots blanks. A jury found USAPA liable? Remember, that was the fantasy trial. Remember that one? The activist desert judge. The one where he controlled the outcome. The one that set you up for the damages. The one that was just like a high school play, the scrimmage, the one that got away,pre season, the one that didn't count. Poof! gone, like a scirocco in the Wal Mart lot in Tempe.