US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nic4us]

Nic4us,You will have to clarify this a little.

· Dual Unionism? I am not aware that plaintiffs pled this. What count is that in the complaint? Define Dual Unionism, where is the proof and where is the evidence. I have been following this case as closely as the next guy and dual unionism, whatever that is, is not in the complaint.

Dual unionism is....if you really do not know, and I suspect from the depth of your post you do....google it.

Then ask yourself, do we know any east reps that were recalled by ALPA national? Were there any domicile updates on ALPA letterhead, berating the union and offering an alternative?

Just pointing to the "dishonest conduct" leg of the "bad faith" stool.

Speaking of stool, we have no idea who grossed out the USPS, but we have hardcopy evidence of Bradford and company's motives, intent and behavior.

 

[767jetz]

Outsiders need not fret themselves to understand an internal union dispute.

Good thing I'm not an outsider... unlike ROACLT.

 

[cleardirect]

Are you kidding me? Have you ever been outside of the US and witnessed how the rest of the world deals with issues like this? Even here in the good old USA, we have a few skeletons in our closet, don't we? Mr. "All men are created equal" Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. Many good Christian preachers wore white on Sunday, but also during their KKK rallies. But they were easties, so let's look out west, shall we? Perhaps you live in PHX. I believe you have a Native American reservation(i love that term, like we set a special place aside) beside your town. If you live there, did the title search on your home go all the way back to make sure it wasn't their land? Or maybe you live in LAX. When you turn on your tap do you wonder about the folks that Mr. Mulholland diverted that water from? How about your Mexican neighbors who have a trickle from the rivers that were dammed by their American neighbors.

Everybody needs to be careful throwing the moral weight around. As I pointed out to Mr. moral compass himself, Trader Jake, I believe the handling of the C18 by USAPA was immoral. I asked what he did to fight it, but he refused to answer. My guess is that he did nothing, as he is probably not a member and gave up that right to fight. Is it moral to ignore an action that you could take steps to stop? A friend (east) of mine fought hard for the C18 and shared an email with me from one of the defendants. It thanked him for his efforts and said that some west pilots didn't support them because they thought it was their own fault. I thought that would be clear cut to a westie.

Many east pilots feel that the injustice of the Nic award is obvious to anyone who is really paying attention, so if the west was morally correct they would renounce it. I disagree. It is a disagreement between two groups and the majority of both groups are good moral people, they just have different life experiences and opinions.

Like a lot of people I can use certain Bible verses to support my side of an argument, but two of my favorites are:

Judge not lest you be judged.
Why do you speak of the speck in my eye when there is a log in your?

I've been as guilty of both as a lot of people around here.

Interesting that you use the example of a reservation. You imply that it was morally wrong to “set a special place aside” You see that as a bad thing.

But you have absolutely no problem fencing the west pilots into PHX our own little reservation set aside just for us.

I guess situational ethics abound.

 

[Pi brat]

Interesting that you use the example of a reservation. You imply that it was morally wrong to “set a special place aside” You see that as a bad thing.

But you have absolutely no problem fencing the west pilots into PHX our own little reservation set aside just for us.

I guess situational ethics abound.

Clear, you guys really need to keep a score card. Show me where I said that.

 

[cleardirect]

Did you ever consider the possibility of numerous posts made earlier, here and other places asserting certain west pilots knew people, clerked or socially knew members of the Phoenix legal structure, including Wake and the 9th- might have possibly been noted by the 9th?There were many insinuations by certain west pilots that they knew Wake, and the 9th appeal would go their way due to this association. And maybe as a result it was looked into, found to be true and Tashima and Graber were selected as a result?

Any facts to back up your rant?

Maybe it is just your inability to accept that everyone else that has looked at this disagrees with you?

 

[cleardirect]

Clear, you guys really need to keep a score card. Show me where I said that.

so let's look out west, shall we? Perhaps you live in PHX. I believe you have a Native American reservation(i love that term, like we set a special place aside) beside your town.

 

[Pi brat]

Can you read? Where in that statement do I say that west pilots should be on a reservation? I was pointing to the situational ethics of others. Geez. Show me where I said this,like you claim:

"But you have absolutely no problem fencing the west pilots into PHX our own little reservation set aside just for us."

 

[Pi brat]

Come on First Officer speedy fingers Clear, show me! :huh:

 

[Phoenix]

Come on First Officer speedy fingers Clear, show me! :huh:

Its a moral thing. You and I wouldn't understand even if he revealed it.

 

[cleardirect]

Can you read? Where in that statement do I say that west pilots should be on a reservation? I was pointing to the situational ethics of others. Geez. Show me where I said this,like you claim:

"But you have absolutely no problem fencing the west pilots into PHX our own little reservation set aside just for us."

Do you agree with usapa’s DOH and current announced C&R? Or are you willing to use the Nicolau?

Well let’s see. If you are a good union pilot that supports USAPA. Usapa’s position is to put PHX pilots on a reservation for 10 years. Those are the C&R. Using DOH places 80% of west pilot below FURLOUGHED east pilots. So there is no way anyone would willing leave the reservation to exercise DOH off the reservation. Using DOH the top 3000 pilots only include 286 west pilots. The top 3500 using DOH includes 400 west pilots.
You support the union therefore you must support the C&R. Therefore you want to place the west pilots on a reservation. Continued separate ops for the next 10 years.

I believed they tried that in the south. Separate but equal. The problem is it was never quite ever equal.

The situational ethics of others? Guess I touch a nerve when you are forced to look at your own actions. The harsh reality of the truth.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Do you agree with usapa’s DOH and current announced C&R? Or are you willing to use the Nicolau?

Well let’s see. If you are a good union pilot that supports USAPA. Usapa’s position is to put PHX pilots on a reservation for 10 years. Those are the C&R. Using DOH places 80% of west pilot below FURLOUGHED east pilots. So there is no way anyone would willing leave the reservation to exercise DOH off the reservation. Using DOH the top 3000 pilots only include 286 west pilots. The top 3500 using DOH includes 400 west pilots.
You support the union therefore you must support the C&R. Therefore you want to place the west pilots on a reservation. Continued separate ops for the next 10 years.

I believed they tried that in the south. Separate but equal. The problem is it was never quite ever equal.

The situational ethics of others? Guess I touch a nerve when you are forced to look at your own actions. The harsh reality of the truth.

If that reservation is like the "SEMINOLES" man what a windfall, legal gambling, nice shows they rake in the bucs, MM! 80% of WEST pilots below EAST pilots furloughed when ? When most of the WEST pilots weren't even old enough to vote? Or better yet have an ATP!

 

[luvn737s]

Do you agree with usapa’s DOH and current announced C&R? Or are you willing to use the Nicolau?

Well let’s see. If you are a good union pilot that supports USAPA. Usapa’s position is to put PHX pilots on a reservation for 10 years. Those are the C&R. Using DOH places 80% of west pilot below FURLOUGHED east pilots. So there is no way anyone would willing leave the reservation to exercise DOH off the reservation. Using DOH the top 3000 pilots only include 286 west pilots. The top 3500 using DOH includes 400 west pilots.
You support the union therefore you must support the C&R. Therefore you want to place the west pilots on a reservation. Continued separate ops for the next 10 years.

I believed they tried that in the south. Separate but equal. The problem is it was never quite ever equal.

The situational ethics of others? Guess I touch a nerve when you are forced to look at your own actions. The harsh reality of the truth.

The Rebels in the south felt it was THEIR South and they had the right to enslave whomever they wanted without interference from Northern interlopers. The East feels that the eastern domiciles are their possession, when in fact they are part of a merged airline and they can hold no claim to anything. They write Jim Crow C&R's and feel that's as benevolent as they need to be.

The airline belongs to the airline, not the pilots or any other employee group. There are benefits and costs that come with a merged airline and both east and west should have access to them. The past is behind you.

 

[boeingplt]

Its a moral thing. You and I wouldn't understand even if he revealed it.

You crack me up my man!

 

[luvthe9]

Any facts to back up your rant?

Maybe it is just your inability to accept that everyone else that has looked at this disagrees with you?

Clear Direct- remember the disagreement on the 9th? Who cares if you disagree? No rant, and the fact you disagree means nothing factually. Every legal horse you have ridden hard has collapsed. Every lawyer in your employ has had a basic and fatal flaw with regard to a very simple legal concept:ripeness.Why don't you ask Jacobs how he could go for damage when there was none? Didn't one of you have the intelligence to see such a basic concept? So the fact you and your legal trust disagrees, means nothing. In fact the concept that they disagree means more disappointment ahead for you. For they still lack the basic understanding of INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS. More education on this issue forthcoming. The fact your half baked legal squad comes on this board repeatedly urging you on with absolutely specious advice and analogy is encouraging to the East. It means more money down the drain, and on the bottom of the pipe is Jacobs. Hopefully he will build a vacation home or put his kids through college with the money. Gather up the Legion of leonidas once more. Into the battle of INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS. One more time. Baptiste and Wilder.And you really don't have to do that. ROACLT has given all of you an education right in your very face, yet you disagree and ignore. He will be proven to be right on, again. Save yourself some money. You are beaten even before you saddle up again.

 

[Ames]

Come on First Officer speedy fingers Clear, show me! :huh:

Someone referred to me as "first officer Ames" many posts back. You guys state this as if it were some kind of put down. Can your egos really be that big? Is your self esteem really that low?

PS: do you really know that we're first officers?