US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvn737s]

Choosing to renegotiate the Nic gives tacit approval to the strategy of changing bargaining agents as a means of avoiding the results of binding arbitration.

This has widespread implications across all of organized labor and should be as vehemently opposed by other labor groups as the past strategy of taking a company into bankruptcy for the sole purpose of abrogating labor contracts and breaking unions.

USAPA - The Frank Lorenzo of pilot's unions!

 

[Freighterguynow]

If LOA 93 fails what is the next plan? All of you senior guys are going to retire under LOA 93. Thank usapa for that gift.

If the senior guys are retiring under LOA 93 - it also means you will be fenced into PHX under you current CBA as well. Patience is running thin over you flying our routes.

 

[cleardirect]

If the senior guys are retiring under LOA 93 - it also means you will be fenced into PHX under you current CBA as well. Patience is running thin over you flying our routes.

Settle in and get used to it.

As long as we have separate contracts the TA has min block hours. We will continue to fly whatever routes the company gives us.

As long as we have separate ops you guys are going to live under LOA93 how is the patience wearing on that agreement?

As long as we have separate ops usapa will not have done their job to improve the working conditions for any Us Airways pilots. How long are you guys willing to allow usapa to hold you at the bottom of the industry? Retire under LOA93. Your call. Don't forget the west also has attrition in 2 years. We will be upgrading pilots. But ours will be to the left seat unlike about 40% of the east that come out of the right seat. Big deal go from reserve to line holder at the lowest wages in the biz.

Keep waiting we have a lot longer time to wait and recover than you do.

 

[FL430]

So you look to union leaders for the definition of words for yourself. Frankly, I will stick with websters for all of my definitions.

The word tidy is what MEC President Hayes and then Xidas put out.

Cleaning an airplane on a through flight involves crossing seat belts, pulling trash from the seat pockets, removing all galley trash, and replacing liners, removing snack boxes, empty lav trash, wipe the lavs down, restock lav supplies, fold pillows and blankets and/or replace, service the lavs and water, remove cockpit trash and clean windows if necessary. Also part of cleaning can be replacing emergency cards, barf bag, magazines and catalogs and cleaning trays, cleaning up barf and changing seat covers.

Also part of the cleaning can be doing a security check.

Dont see any FAs doing anything more than crossing belts and folding pillows and blankets.

Never seen one drive a lav or water truck

That is per US Airways appearance manual.

You make this too easy.

In this Issue of the Boston News-Line

 

[cleardirect]

Here is what will happen in the not so distant future:

USAPA will put out for a vote a TA with Kirby and NIC attached - It will be voted down by a very wide margin.

USAPA will put out for a vote a TA with Kirby plus 10% pay and Nic attached - Agan voted down by a wide margin.

USAPA will put out for a vote a TA with Kirby plus 20% pay and Nic attached - Again voted down but by not so wide a margin.

USAPA will put out for a vote a TA with Kirby plus 30% pay and Nic attached - Again voted down but by not so wide a margin.

Company refuses to offer any more pay or benefit proposals.

USAPA puts out for a vote a TA with Kirby plus 30% with DOH and conditions and restrictions to protect both east and west pilots with respect to seniority. If an east pilot transfers west he does so under Nic. If a West pilot transfers east he does so under DOH. (Or maybe even a 10 year East - West fence with no bump, no flush.) This TA is voted in by the majority.

AOL immediately files suit and requests an injunction against USAPA for DFR II. Judge promptly throws out the case because the union tried to represent both sides on a contract. It will not even be put before a jury. A joint contract was unobtainable if it contaned the Nic. That will be the unions defense - they presented the matter before the membership and the members clearly spoke as an almost precedent setting 92% of membership participated in the vote.

Fire away.....

But wait. Why would usapa put any contract out for vote with the Nicolau in it ever? All of you keep telling us that the Nicolau is dead. So why would usapa start with Nicolau and keep upping the ante?

BTW are you so sure that it would fail? There is no evidence that a contract with money and the Nicolau would fail. Only the word of some east pilots. And we all know what that is worth.

Now you are saying that under DOH there need to be C&R that protect east pilots under DOH. Wow how much more do you want?

Tell you what. Make your offer to the company at the next negotiating session and let’s get this going. Let’s see what the reaction to a 10 fence would be.

Stop talking about it and let’s get on with it. Is it going to be DOH or are we going to see a Nicolau contract?

 

[700UW]

So you look to union leaders for the definition of words for yourself. Frankly, I will stick with websters for all of my definitions.

The union leaders who with the company, (included in the letter) defined what the FAs responsibilities are.

Gee I see you ignored what cleaning a plane is and what the FA duties actually are.

Guess you cant refute or dispute the truth, can you?

 

[FL430]

But wait. Why would usapa put any contract out for vote with the Nicolau in it ever? All of you keep telling us that the Nicolau is dead. So why would usapa start with Nicolau and keep upping the ante?

To show the court ( and you ) that Nic is DOA.

BTW are you so sure that it would fail? There is no evidence that a contract with money and the Nicolau would fail. Only the word of some east pilots. And we all know what that is worth.

Watch and see grasshopper. We know what your side has predicted too - "you wont get enough cards" , " wait till the damages trial", and " you are wasting your time with the ninth". Only time will tell, watch closely.


Now you are saying that under DOH there need to be C&R that protect east pilots under DOH. Wow how much more do you want?

Protections for both sides, its better than stapling you right?

Tell you what. Make your offer to the company at the next negotiating session and let’s get this going. Let’s see what the reaction to a 10 fence would be.

You wont like what is about to happen to you, we saw how you all reacted to Doug at the last crew news. Why didnt you all applaud him this time?

Stop talking about it and let’s get on with it. Is it going to be DOH or are we going to see a Nicolau contract?

Why the hurry? Most of the east is fine with the way thngs are, I know I am and every one I seem to fly with.

 

[Black Swan]

Settle in and get used to it.

As long as we have separate contracts the TA has min block hours. We will continue to fly whatever routes the company gives us.

As long as we have separate ops you guys are going to live under LOA93 how is the patience wearing on that agreement?

As long as we have separate ops usapa will not have done their job to improve the working conditions for any Us Airways pilots. How long are you guys willing to allow usapa to hold you at the bottom of the industry? Retire under LOA93. Your call. Don't forget the west also has attrition in 2 years. We will be upgrading pilots. But ours will be to the left seat unlike about 40% of the east that come out of the right seat. Big deal go from reserve to line holder at the lowest wages in the biz.

Keep waiting we have a lot longer time to wait and recover than you do.

We will be patient the rest of the summer, if that is how long it takes to either win or lose the LOA 93 grievance.

 

[FL430]

The union leaders who with the company, (included in the letter) defined what the FAs responsibilities are.

You mean the same union leaders and the same company that gave you the shaft and why you find yourself on the outside looking in.

Gee I see you ignored what cleaning a plane is and what the FA duties actually are.

No didnt ignore it, just gave you directions on where you can find real definitions. It is up to you to educate yourself - that is why you find yourself in the predicament in life that you are in.

Guess you cant refute or dispute the truth, can you?

Sure I can, would you like the Websters page numbers?

 

[700UW]

Keep ignoring the facts.

Evidence, the info from the US Airways Appearance Manual and the AFA CBA, and Letter of clarification.

I was a stock clerk and left US on my own accord and I was on the IAM Negotiating Committee in the 2004 Bankruptcy case.

Try again, maybe you can actually refute something?

Keep attacking me instead of addressing the issue.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Don't forget the west also has attrition in 2 years. We will be upgrading pilots. But ours will be to the left seat unlike about 40% of the east that come out of the right seat. Big deal go from reserve to line holder at the lowest wages in the biz.

Do you just make that up as you go along. In December of 2012 when age 65 kicks in 87 in the top 100 will be over age 60. 361 of the top 500 will be over age 60. 601 of the top 1000 will be over age 60. So 600 of the top 1000 will be gone in 5 years or less if they go before age 65. 939 of the top 1000 will be gone in 10 years of less. So 60% of the top 1000 will go in 5 or less and almost the entire top 1000 in 10yrs or less and you think East pilots don't see the value in that. Get real.

 

[Freighterguynow]

How long are you guys willing to allow usapa to hold you at the bottom of the industry? Retire under LOA93. Your call. Don't forget the west also has attrition in 2 years. We will be upgrading pilots.
Keep waiting we have a lot longer time to wait and recover than you do.

I am willing to wait exactly 1 day more than you are.

You have 43 pilots over age 60 we are nearing 600 - you just keep thinking Butch, it's what you're good at.

 

[FL430]

Keep ignoring the facts.

Evidence, the info from the US Airways Appearance Manual and the AFA CBA, and Letter of clarification.

Why do you think they even needed a letter of clarification? I am sure even you can figure out that one.

I was a stock clerk and left US on my own accord and I was on the IAM Negotiating Committee in the 2004 Bankruptcy case.

So what does one do after reaching the lofty goal of attaining the title of stock clerk? Maybe consider attending college? You did a very good job in negotiatons didnt you?

Try again, maybe you can actually refute something?

Like was said in a previous post - you can lead a horse to water...........

Keep attacking me instead of addressing the issue.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Heh, heh heh. One for the archives!

I'll save some laughter for USAPA's first (and last) stike ballot.

Bob Barker always encourages the spaying or neutering of cats dogs and pretend unions. The ninth took care of that for USAPA.

Yes, that's it. Avoid the question by changing the subject. Who said anything about a strike ballot?

The representational election cards? Where are they? (crickets still at it.)

True, and who would come back for an E-190 right seat paycheck, or hire into it?

I agree that most would think twice about coming back from furlough into an E-190 right seat.

But hire into it? There will be droves of pilots lined up for the jobs. As bad as that E-190 right seat may seem to most of us, it's a heavenly opportunity to the thousands of pilots flying for regional carriers and they will jump at the chance to fly it. We think our contract is bad and the E-190 pay rate stinks, but it s really all relative.

 

[cleardirect]

Yes, that's it. Avoid the question by changing the subject. Who said anything about a strike ballot?

The representational election cards? Where are they? (crickets still at it.)



I agree that most would think twice about coming back from furlough into an E-190 right seat.

But hire into it? There will be droves of pilots lined up for the jobs. As bad as that E-190 right seat may seem to most of us, it's a heavenly opportunity to the thousands of pilots flying for regional carriers and they will jump at the chance to fly it. We think our contract is bad and the E-190 pay rate stinks, but it s really all relative.

Still living in the past. Coming to Us Air is the last place most people will want to apply. The 190 or regionals pay about the same. Throw in the seniority and contract fight. Run away.