US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Black Swan]

And the United mergers? The one's before Doug?

This pilot group has a history that every knows and dislikes.

And you attribute this all to the pilots? Think again Jake. Think how many airlines have merged and been taken out by this management. It isn't the pilots.

 

[traderjake]

Why are you still proposing we whimper for approval? No matter what you do in life there will always be people who will tell you that they don't like what you are doing.

When the overwhelming majority of other pilots say what you are doing is wrong you might consider the possibility that they are right.

Three arbitration panels say your wrong.

Hiding behind DOH to steal another man job is wrong even if you and the majority of East pilots can't see it.

The courts will have the final say in the matter.

 

[traderjake]

And you attribute this all to the pilots? Think again Jake. Think how many airlines have merged and been taken out by this management. It isn't the pilots.

If you actually asked one of them you'd find it's both.

 

[luvthe9]

When the overwhelming majority of other pilots say what you are doing is wrong you might consider the possibility that they are right.

Three arbitration panels say your wrong.

Hiding behind DOH to steal another man job is wrong even if you and the majority of East pilots can't see it.

The courts will have the final say in the matter.

The majority of pilots I talk to say it is insane what the West got. Hiding behind a DOH history is, well, our history. Listed as a textbook case in the handbook. The Nic is totally unfair. If it were even close to fair, it would have flown. You know the history. It was a windfall. Either way, I could care less what a Delta or UAL pilot thinks about it. I do know they would never accept the Nic if it were done to them.

 

[luvthe9]

And the United mergers? The one's before Doug?

This pilot group has a history that every knows and dislikes.

Yes, ask the Piedmont, USAir and PSA pilots how unfair it was. Everybody is pretty happy about the way things went. Not with this abortion.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

When the overwhelming majority of other pilots say what you are doing is wrong you might consider the possibility that they are right.

Three arbitration panels say your wrong.

Hiding behind DOH to steal another man job is wrong even if you and the majority of East pilots can't see it.

The courts will have the final say in the matter.

You'll excuse me if I laugh at your comment about what other pilots say. Most of them have no clue as to what occurred at US Airways and when they are informed, don't sing the tune you are espousing.

Since the East operation is holding this airline up and is where any job and revenue growth is coming from, the East pilots could say they are providing 24% of the west pilots captain positions, jobs and blocks at the expense of the East pilots who sacrificed 1.1 billion annually in pay, benefit, and retirement to preserve the core of the airline, which has ensured any jobs that still exist. It isn't Phoenix and the grand state of Arizona keeping US Airways afloat. Las Vegas has one of the worse economies and highest unemployment rates in the country and its housing market went completely bust. Phoenix isn't far behind it in that regard. East pilots aren't clamoring for those 24% of West pilots that are flying East routes and holding Captain bids and blocks accordingly to be dumped on the street, they are just saying that in the absence of free market meritocracy that sacrifice and longevity rule the day. Take your place in line. Whether it is pay, benefit, retirement, or scope relief(which led to the bulk and length of furloughs), all of the sacrifice that preserved the value that is still left in the company was borne by East pilots with more time at the company.

Sorry the argument for stealing another man's job, could easily be turned around. Most jobs are had by work ethic, dedication and ability. Do you hold yours for those reasons? At the end of the day, its your job artificially because a union protects it, whether it was ALPA or now USAPA. The arbitration panels you reference were tied to ALPA and their policies and agenda. I guess that has some meaning to you.

The courts will have their say at some point in the future but no one has a crystal ball. Its like someone posted earlier, hp_fa was supposed to be the legal guru on the board but was wrong about the appeal and en banc, so unless you have a crystal ball, you don't know.

 

[luvn737s]

THE REAL USAIRWAYS VETERANS, WON"T ROLL OVER AND GIVE IT AWAY!

Sorry to break it to you, but your airline went bye bye 5 years ago. LCC is a combination of 2 airlines.

REAL US Airways pilots. Too funny!

 

[Pi brat]

Here's a crazy idea: Didn't we decide months ago that this was in the courts hands? Well, the way I see it unless AOL goes to the Supreme Court, there is nothing to do UNTIL we get a contract. Let's do that, then start all these arguments again.

 

[PullUp]

Here's a crazy idea: Didn't we decide months ago that this was in the courts hands? Well, the way I see it unless AOL goes to the Supreme Court, there is nothing to do UNTIL we get a contract. Let's do that, then start all these arguments again.

Going to the supreme court would be a fools errand. Spending another 2 million when eleven judges said the case doesn't have merit might just be throwing good money away.
Plus, the time involved with a supreme court case would only hurt the people that are claiming to be hurt.
Honestly, I'd wait for the new contract, take the money, and make the legal decisions then....
Time to get that new contract ratified (on January 2nd).
Have a great day.

 

[MyJ4JjobSucks]

When the overwhelming majority of other pilots say what you are doing is wrong you might consider the possibility that they are right.

Three arbitration panels say your wrong.

Hiding behind DOH to steal another man job is wrong even if you and the majority of East pilots can't see it.

The courts will have the final say in the matter.

 

[traderjake]

Yes, ask the Piedmont, USAir and PSA pilots how unfair it was. Everybody is pretty happy about the way things went. Not with this abortion.

The majority of Piedmont pilots said it was unfair until we merged with America West.

Now that it's benefits them they've alot have flipped.

 

[MyJ4JjobSucks]

Oops, double post.

Are the flight attendants screaming about the east stealing their jobs?

Are the Mechanics screaming about the east stealing their jobs?

Fair is Fair, DOH with C&R's is more than fair. Are you saying that all the other employee groups at US Airways are hiding behind DOH to steal jobs at the expense of others?

 

[traderjake]

You'll excuse me if I laugh at your comment about what other pilots say. Most of them have no clue as to what occurred at US Airways and when they are informed, don't sing the tune you are espousing.

You're wrong.

The majority of other pilots are laughing at you and you don't know it.

Like I said, we have a history, everyone else sees it and doesn't like it.

That's why they want nothing to with us.

 

[traderjake]

Are the flight attendants screaming about the east stealing their jobs?

Are the Mechanics screaming about the east stealing their jobs?

Fair is Fair, DOH with C&R's is more than fair. Are you saying that all the other employee groups at US Airways are hiding behind DOH to steal jobs at the expense of others?

Yes they are.

The West Flight Attendants got screwed but they did it to themselves when they joined a union with a DOH merger policy.

 

[Pi brat]

The majority of Piedmont pilots said it was unfair until we merged with America West.

Now that it's benefits them they've alot have flipped.

Trader,

I haven't flipped-DOH has a lot of pitfalls for the west pilots, but I'm along for the ride like you and all west pilots are. I tried and failed to get all pilots to come to terms before all this happened. If I had to choose between DOH and Nic, I'd choose DOH. We should have been able to come up with something that served us all better, but we didn't so we let the courts figure it out. Both sides are all in.