US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[pjirish317]

That's really a personal question left up to the individual. I know plenty of UAL furloughees that did indeed get other jobs, never looked back, and declined recall. How many of the nearly 1900 East furloughees actually returned? Going back based on a theoretical "earning potential" when you've been through (respectively) 1 or 2 recent bankruptcies is a speculative crap shoot at best. I know I wouldn't have returned if I had found a decent job in the interim. I know what you're getting at, but in my mind, years of service is just ONE facet to a much larger, dynamic question. DOH is overly simplistic. So let's assume the AAA/AMW merger, are you suggesting that a AMW pilot experience some kind of career degradation because a furloughee, from another airline, rolled the dice and accepted recall to an airline whose impeding liquidation was imminent?

Weather this is true/not true, or just pure speculation on your part, IT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!!! Two companies merged, there was no one bought the other, it was a MERGER! The only fact should be, USAirways remains. For both sides. Get over it already. As much as you would have liked it to be true, sadly it is not. I am sorry that I do not live on the "What If Planet" like you do, for example, what happens "if" AWA didn't merge with US? Who really cares. The merger happened. Come back to Earth. Stop bringing up this "What If" argument. Because there is no "What If" in this case. BTW, thank you for your callous attitude wanting all the other employees on the "East" side to lose jobs with your "What If" fantasy.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim, I didn't pick a date.

You said "I was in fact recalled from furlough some 7 months prior to Nicolaus decision that indecated that I didn't bring a job to the merger?!?". That sounds like picking a date - your recall date. Or at least a time frame after your recall date. The date an arbitrator issues his/her decision has nothing to do with the merger. The length of time depends on how long negotiations go on prior to deciding to use a mediator, and then how long mediation lasts before agreeing to us an arbitrator. Once it's decided to use arbitration, how much testimony the two sides give and the arbitrator's schedule are also variables.

That's why the arbitrator deals with the certified seniority lists presented by the MCs and nothing else. The certified lists are supposed to be accurate as of the PID (under ALPA) or the actual merger date. The only updating of the lists is when producing the combined list, and that's limited to removing those who retired, died, or otherwise permanently left the employ of either airline.

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

When punctuation was being taught in the 3rd grade, where were you? Typing 9 Commas in what should be 6 different sentences all ran together like a train wreck? I have to wonder. When you were swirling the economic toilet bowl during your 2nd BK, right before Doug Parker literally saved you, did you have this same delusion that "any EAST pilot" held a valuable position?

If so, what on Earth made you think an East pilot position was worth a solitary square of toilet paper? Working for a A thrice Economic failure and habitual Bankruptcy Court dweller wouldn't give me the same sense of security that you display. Although after reading your posts, (or at least attempting to decipher your "hammoronic" code), I guess I'm not shocked at your ability to morph your own reality in the face of conflicting fact.

All this rage from someone that thinks you can sue your company for Breach of Contract under the RLA. I guess that's just the "moronic" code.

 

[Metroyet]

Weather this is true/not true, or just pure speculation on your part, IT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!!! Two companies merged, there was no one bought the other, it was a MERGER! The only fact should be, USAirways remains. For both sides. Get over it already. As much as you would have liked it to be true, sadly it is not. I am sorry that I do not live on the "What If Planet" like you do, for example, what happens "if" AWA didn't merge with US? Who really cares. The merger happened. Come back to Earth. Stop bringing up this "What If" argument. Because there is no "What If" in this case. BTW, thank you for your callous attitude wanting all the other employees on the "East" side to lose jobs with your "What If" fantasy.

You mean like the fantasy that "what if" we could ignore binding arbitration? "What if" we used our majority to hide behind a fake labor union and stapled 80% of the pilots working for the airline that UNQUESTIONABLY saved our economic behinds? Which "What if's" are you comfortable with, and which ones give you a little heartburn? Clearly you have the ability to decide which "What if's" you regard as frivolous, and which ones you regard as an inalienable right. Let me guess, the "gold standard" is one of those inalienable "what if's" isn't it?

We've been down that road and a Jury made quick work dismantling Lee Seham and his selective "what if" program.

(BTW, it's Whether. Not Weather...pilots should know the difference.) Rhymes shouldn't be so confusing.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You said "I was in fact recalled from furlough some 7 months prior to Nicolaus decision that indecated that I didn't bring a job to the merger?!?". That sounds like picking a date - your recall date. Or at least a time frame after your recall date. The date an arbitrator issues his/her decision has nothing to do with the merger. The length of time depends on how long negotiations go on prior to deciding to use a mediator, and then how long mediation lasts before agreeing to us an arbitrator. Once it's decided to use arbitration, how much testimony the two sides give and the arbitrator's schedule are also variables.

That's why the arbitrator deals with the certified seniority lists presented by the MCs and nothing else. The certified lists are supposed to be accurate as of the PID (under ALPA) or the actual merger date. The only updating of the lists is when producing the combined list, and that's limited to removing those who retired, died, or otherwise permanently left the employ of either airline.

Jim

It's a good thing USAPA doesn't need an arbitrator. DOH/LOS has worked great for every other labor group at LCC, and, in fact, I've NEVER heard of ANY company having an issue with it. Only arrogant pilots that think they can get something for nothing think there are better ways.

 

[pjirish317]

You mean like the fantasy that "what if" we could ignore binding arbitration? "What if" we used our majority to hide behind a fake labor union and stapled 80% of the pilots working for the airline that UNQUESTIONABLY saved our economic behinds? Which "What if's" are you comfortable with, and which ones give you a little heartburn? Clearly you have the ability to decide which "What if's" you regard as frivolous, and which ones you regard as an inalienable right. Let me guess, the "gold standard" is one of those inalienable "what if's" isn't it?

We've been down that road and a Jury made quick work dismantling Lee Seham and his selective "what if" program.

(BTW, it's Whether. Not Weather...pilots should know the difference.) Rhymes shouldn't be so confusing.

1. I am not a pilot. Never claimed to be.
2. Thank you for the spelling lesson.
3. I am not comfortable with any "What If's", Did you even read my post, or just go into attack mode?
4. The only dog I have in this fight is that I am an employee here. I have not chosen sides. I spoke only to your part about liquidation, nothing else. So go ahead attack away. It looks like that is all you can do.

 

[nic4us]

It's a good thing USAPA doesn't need an arbitrator. DOH/LOS has worked great for every other labor group at LCC, and, in fact, I've NEVER heard of ANY company having an issue with it. Only arrogant pilots that think they can get something for nothing think there are better ways.

"usapa doesn't need an arbitrator"? good luck with that loa93 thing. I presume you mean "usapa doesn't need an arbitrator" to combine the seniority lists, as that has already been accomplished. So, you are absolutely 100% correct, "usapa doesn't need an arbitrator" to combine the two list, they are going to rearrange the already arbitrated list to the benefit of the east pilot group at the direct detriment of the West pilot group. I sense "unquestionably ripe DFR", with any change "usapa doesn't need an arbitrator" to accomplish.

You "NEVER heard of ANY company having an issue with it"? Did you read the statement of labor principles put out by YOUR company and signed by Mr. Parker and Mr. Lakfield?

 

[767jetz]

Question for you 767. Do you really believe your United guys that have been with company over ten years and are now furloughed should be below every Continental pilot in a combined list?

Yes.

They will come back to exactly the same place they would have come back to absent a merger. That being a reserve position in the right seat of whatever the smallest jet we have at the time. They should however be paid at a level equal to their LOS. They will also most certainly be back on the property post merger far sooner than absent the merger, and be coming back to a better contract and more stable company.

 

[767jetz]

Hey, anyone in Phoenix tonight? Nice weather here. How do you guys handle this heat?? B)

One cancellation, three deadhead legs from LGA to ORD to LAX to PHX for a 10 hour layover!

Livin' the glamorous airline life! Have a good night...

 

[Metroyet]

1. I am not a pilot. Never claimed to be.
2. Thank you for the spelling lesson.
3. I am not comfortable with any "What If's", Did you even read my post, or just go into attack mode?
4. The only dog I have in this fight is that I am an employee here. I have not chosen sides. I spoke only to your part about liquidation, nothing else. So go ahead attack away. It looks like that is all you can do.

Not an attack, just reflecting your same logic back at you.
Don't care you're not a pilot. Not relevant.
If you feel "attacked" by your own logic , I don't really know what to say to you. Sorry for your delicate sensibilities.

 

[pjirish317]

Not an attack, just reflecting your same logic back at you.
Don't care you're not a pilot. Not relevant.
If you feel "attacked" by your own logic , I don't really know what to say to you. Sorry for your delicate sensibilities.

You assumed I was a pilot when you corrected my spelling. Did you not? The only logic I used was that it was a "Merger", and I was aiming that at the liquidation part of your post. You are assuming something that nobody can see because it did not happen. Period. And yes I am sensitive when it comes to my job, and with those who wish I lost it 5 years ago, because they have some delusion that an outcome that they desired did not happen.

 

[traderjake]

I guess that's just the "moronic" code.

You're implying someone else is a moron, give me a break.

 

[nic4us]

Hey, anyone in Phoenix tonight? Nice weather here. How do you guys handle this heat?? B)

One cancellation, three deadhead legs from LGA to ORD to LAX to PHX for a 10 hour layover!

Livin' the glamorous airline life! Have a good night...

Hope you are paid more than 1/2 deadhead pay like some pilots we all know.

To handle the heat, we jump in the pool. Mine is at 90*F, perfect for a nightime splash.

 

[spike99]

Go to the bank, tell them you're a furloughed United pilot and see how big of a mortgage they will give you.

That's how much being furloughed is worth whether it's one year or 10 years.

I hope if you fly with any of the pilots unfortunately enough to be furlougheded, you tell them not to worry about doing anything, since they aren't worth anything anyway. Don't worry about the fact they allowed you to move up the seniority list while the company acquired new airplanes, to accomodate the training float. Not to mention the fact of keeping the company afloat in 2007 when the lists hadn't been merged. Do you think the company could have actually hired enough off the streets to keep up? I only flew 90+ hours a month after I was recalled, with no ability to say no because of the great LOA 93 you voted for. Don't even try to tell me you voted no! My first vote was for USAPA, the first time I'd actually been able to vote for anything, and I've voted for everything since. Of course in your world, that is the problem. I'll never attain what you have been afforded from this occupation, and I really don't care. I'd only like to provide for my family a little better than a bus driver in a metropolitan area, but once again, I forget this is not your concern, you are obviously an aviators God, and deserve everything you can get by crawling over the bodies of those less skilled. Fraternally yours (of course you have to be a memeber) Spike

 

[Jester]

You assumed I was a pilot when you corrected my spelling. Did you not? The only logic I used was that it was a "Merger", and I was aiming that at the liquidation part of your post. You are assuming something that nobody can see because it did not happen. Period. And yes I am sensitive when it comes to my job, and with those who wish I lost it 5 years ago, because they have some delusion that an outcome that they desired did not happen.

PJ,

I think it would be proper to avoid comments to the pilots group, as neither of us qualified to speak on their matters... they can be a bitey bunch and to stir their ire is to invoke their own brand of black majic upon the helpless victim. The pilots avoid comments in FSA board, and I think we should honor their stomping grounds and thread lightly as passing observers.

So Consults Jester.

P.S. I do wish for some resolution with the pilots group as I believe other airlines and work groups continue to advance ahead of US, and it maintains an unpleasant work environment, although this is something which I could not begin to opine as to a solution.