US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Freighterguynow]

What do you suppose USAPA will offer in Section 22 that addresses this disparity and awards the West pilots some Captain vacancies before every East pilot checks out ahead of them?

I can hardly wait to see that section passed across the negotiating table.

More to the point would be asking "What will it take for the East majority to vote 'yes' to an agreement that allows West pilots to bid east and take opportunities from the East pilot group"?

USAPA can pass whatever they want - no fence = NO.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

the Transition agreement is tri-lateral and not your CBA. Wake never fully dismissed the Company because the RLA circumstances do not give Airlines, Railroads, and Unions Carte Blanche to do whatever they want...no matter how absurd and illegal and all the while relying on the grievance system to work out problems. Why did American successfully sue apa in court...isn't that RLA? What about MDA...should they just "grieve it"? Alaska Pilots sued Alaska in Fed. ct. as well. I guess nobody told them the grievance process is the only acceptable method of recourse. There are hundreds of court cases involving airlines, and unions. Don't know where you're getting your info but but Your and the companies lawyers will once again be seen huddling at the same table just like they did in Wakes Court room...How apropos.

Again. All 4 Judges ruled that USAPA is on a course to another DFR. This issue isn't going to simply go away and the West isn't just going to forget about it. Once ratified, you're going straight back to court. When Ripeness wasn't an issue, the Jury unanimously convicted inside of 90 minutes. What makes you think that won't happen again? Just like last time, it will be a slam dunk. Vote Yes...go all in. (no crying this time however)

You cannot sue the company for breach of contract. PERIOD. Are you a West lawyer? You sure seem to think like one. How is American suing the APA ANYTHING like an individual or group of individuals suing the company? You're so far out in left field you can't even SEE THE STADIUM.

All that other crap you made up is just that, CRAP.

If Judge Wake says you can sue the company for breach of contract, he'd be wrong, AGAIN.

Just because you have a ripe case doesn't mean you'll win it. It's YOUR money. Waste it however you want.

 

[nycbusdriver]

All 4 Judges ruled that USAPA is on a course to another DFR.

They didn't rule[/] that USAPA is on course to another DFR. A ruling would have to be followed. What the judges said is that, once a contact is ratified, the case would definitely then be ripe for litigation.

Those federal judges aren't dummies. They can read the east vs. west tea leaves very well, and they seemed to tacitly imply that there would be a DFR lawsuit. Duh! One would have to be sealed up in a cave not to see that coming.

But only ONE of the four federal judges made any indication that a subsequent DFR lawsuit would be successful. And that judge is the one that got his tushie spanked by the Ninth Circuit for not following the law in the first place.

Evidently AOL and friends simply has a lot of money to toss into the crapper. Bring it on.

There was NO HINT from the Ninth that a future DFR would prevail, only that it could exist.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You cannot sue the company for breach of contract. PERIOD.

All that other crap you made up is just that, CRAP.

Just because you have a ripe case doesn't nean you'll win it. It's YOUR money. Waste it however you want.

They may not get to handpick their next judge, the problem, next time the "NIC" will be on trial! MM! A tri-lateral agreement without the tri- I like it!

 

[Pi brat]

The 16 year LOS East pilot was a junior reserve F/O if not furloughed. That is what his seniority "bought. An 8 year West Captain was junior perhaps, but in the left seat. That is what his seniority "bought."

Nicolau should have accounted for the East's higher attrition. That's what I dislike about the Nic. Other than that, it complied with ALPA Merger Policy. I agree with Captain Bruscia (pilot neutral on the Nic). "Minimum consideration should be g iven to those USAirways pilots already recalled; that the treatment of them as active pilots consistent with their present status would serve to recognize the substantial time they had already invested in their airline."

What do you suppose USAPA will offer in Section 22 that addresses this disparity and awards the West pilots some Captain vacancies before every East pilot checks out ahead of them?

I can hardly wait to see that section passed across the negotiating table.

I too agree with Brucia, but I think you miss quoted him. Didn't he Say "At a minimum......." instead of "Minimum........."? It makes a difference in what he meant.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I too agree with Brucia, but I think you miss quoted him. Didn't he Say "At a minimum......." instead of "Minimum........."? It makes a difference in what he meant.

You are correct.

 

[cleardirect]

What did we learn this week? That the east pilots are very confident in their “win” at the ninth circuit. They are so confident that they have to continue to scream to the world that they “won”.

So far this week 216 posts. 137 or 63% of all the posts were from the east. If you guys are so sure that you won and that you are going to get DOH why keep telling us? Oldie leads the pack.46 out of 216 posts or 21% of all conversation. Who is he trying so hard to convince? Himself or someone else? Follow that up with MM and 23 posts 11%, Luvthe9 16 7% and the newly minted informed 11. So of just the east posters Oldie dominated with 34%.

We all get it you have an opinion, we know what it is. Is anyone going to be convinced this late in the game?

West posters 46 or 21% and from BB and 76jets two people with no dog in the fight 27 posts. 5 neutral posts.

It seems the east sure has a lot to say for a group that thinks they “won”. Perhaps the east is not as confident in getting what they want as they project.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

What did we learn this week? That the east pilots are very confident in their “win” at the ninth circuit. They are so confident that they have to continue to scream to the world that they “won”.

So far this week 216 posts. 137 or 63% of all the posts were from the east. If you guys are so sure that you won and that you are going to get DOH why keep telling us? Oldie leads the pack.46 out of 216 posts or 21% of all conversation. Who is he trying so hard to convince? Himself or someone else? Follow that up with MM and 23 posts 11%, Luvthe9 16 7% and the newly minted informed 11. So of just the east posters Oldie dominated with 34%.

We all get it you have an opinion, we know what it is. Is anyone going to be convinced this late in the game?

West posters 46 or 21% and from BB and 76jets two people with no dog in the fight 27 posts. 5 neutral posts.

It seems the east sure has a lot to say for a group that thinks they “won”. Perhaps the east is not as confident in getting what they want as they project.

So what did I win?

To paraphrase Jim: Correcting [west] posters is getting to be a full time job.

I'm impressed. Just remember the ol' Mark Twain quote: "figures don't lie but liars figure".

Oh, one more thing. Yes WE WON! BIG TIME!

 

[Pi brat]

What did we learn this week? That the east pilots are very confident in their “win” at the ninth circuit. They are so confident that they have to continue to scream to the world that they “won”.

So far this week 216 posts. 137 or 63% of all the posts were from the east. If you guys are so sure that you won and that you are going to get DOH why keep telling us? Oldie leads the pack.46 out of 216 posts or 21% of all conversation. Who is he trying so hard to convince? Himself or someone else? Follow that up with MM and 23 posts 11%, Luvthe9 16 7% and the newly minted informed 11. So of just the east posters Oldie dominated with 34%.

We all get it you have an opinion, we know what it is. Is anyone going to be convinced this late in the game?

West posters 46 or 21% and from BB and 76jets two people with no dog in the fight 27 posts. 5 neutral posts.

It seems the east sure has a lot to say for a group that thinks they “won”. Perhaps the east is not as confident in getting what they want as they project.

I think the %s were about the same when the west "won" in PHX and phrases like "gear up XXXXX!" covered the internet.

Nobody has "won" the war yet, just a battle here and there, and we are all losing money everyday. There are many more steps left to go and nobody knows the outcome. Make you a deal, let's get on with it, get a contract (when a DFR will be unquestionably ripe, ripe but not a given that they are guilty) and you guys can sue again. If you win I will say congrats, never look back or mention it again if you will do the same.

 

[Phoenix]

Would this be interesting if Continental pilots started their own in house union? The president of ALPA , John Prater is a Continental Pilot. What a terrible thought. You can trust Prater, he is in the office of the VP of ALPA Paul Rice, United Pilot, every day, I am sure they are looking out for the CAL pilots best interest.

Sleep well, they will probably handle this the way they handled the USAirways, America West merger.

With 767 jetz United pilots 1467 pilots on furlough, he for sure can add some insight into this situation for all to obtain. Interestingly enough, 767 was very active on this thread until a possible merger with USAirways, America West and United was announced. His sabbatical ended from this board the day the CAL UAL merger Idea was conceived.

Good Night.

Yeah, we all felt really bad when Chris Beebe was removed from the ALPA vice president for finance because USAir left ALPA.

Since John Prater pulled CAL back into ALPA (that didn't hurt his chances at the Press position) it would really suck if the CAL pilots pulled him back out. That would be some spilled milk to cry over.

 

[767jetz]

I too agree with Brucia, but I think you miss quoted him. Didn't he Say "At a minimum......." instead of "Minimum........."? It makes a difference in what he meant.

Very good point. And it illustrates why we should all be careful of the cut and paste information on web forums, as 2 simple words can change the meaning of anything.

 

[767jetz]

Nobody has "won" the war yet, just a battle here and there, and we are all losing money everyday. There are many more steps left to go and nobody knows the outcome. Make you a deal, let's get on with it, get a contract (when a DFR will be unquestionably ripe, ripe but not a given that they are guilty) and you guys can sue again. If you win I will say congrats, never look back or mention it again if you will do the same.

I haven't seen truer words written on this forum in a long, long time. I agree 100%. No one knows the outcome on either side until all the legal battles are over. I've already said that if a DOH contract stands, implemented and unchallenged, I will be one of the first to say the east was right, and then move on.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

I've already said that if a DOH contract stands, implemented and unchallenged, I will be one of the first to say the east was right, and then move on.

Question for you 767. Do you really believe your United guys that have been with company over ten years and are now furloughed should be below every Continental pilot in a combined list?

 

[traderjake]

Oh, one more thing. Yes WE WON! BIG TIME!

Not knowing your wrong is much worse than being wrong.

All you won is a delay in the process.

It's pure delusion to call that winning big time.

 

[traderjake]

Do you really believe your United guys that have been with company over ten years and are now furloughed should be below every Continental pilot in a combined list?

Go to the bank, tell them you're a furloughed United pilot and see how big of a mortgage they will give you.

That's how much being furloughed is worth whether it's one year or 10 years.