I'm man enough to admit that I was wrong about one thing - post normal retirement an east pilot can't just cash in their sick bank and get a lump sum. But no matter how often you (or Al Legheny) say it, sick bank has potential value after normal retirement just as it does for pre-65 retirement. I even pointed you to the section of LOA 93 that says that and you still don't get it. I guess "You can lead a horse to water..." applies in some cases.
The question is whether you're man enough to admit that you're wrong. Never mind, that's a rhetorical question since I already know the answer.
Jim
Jim you're still wrong about more than one thing. This debate started with Metroyet
Agreed. Anybody leaving anything on the table to the airline for free is a fool.
Al, me, Oldie or anyone never talked about early medical retirement. Only you did. ALL your arguments were based on now outdated LOA 93, page 28, "
Post 1/1/05 Retiree, Pre-age 65 Retiree Medical."
Forced retirement age age 60. That section died in December 2007. A quick read of the next paragraph, "
Post 1/1/05, Post Age 65 Retiree Coverage," made that even clearer. "
Eliminate medical coverage for all future retirees effective January 1, 2005." The other 4 points said ALL medical benefits ended at age 65 as well. You flat got confused, but your pride got the better of you and you've been on a tear ever since.
Correcting east posters is getting to be a full time job. I did not say that the company will cover medical - they won't pay for it, However, retiring pilots qualify for 18 months of COBRA coverage and pilots with accumulated sick bank may use that sick bank to pay part of the cost of of COBRA. That will be less than the 18 months of COBRA (for pilot and spouse the 2010 cost of COBRA for pilot and spouse is $1145.90 and dental is $59.28).
Quoting LOA 93:
Allow post-retirees to use accrued sick bank pay starting at retirement to pay retiree medical costs
1. A pilot retiree may apply up to 25 sick hours per month, valued at $18.50 per hour ($432.50) to a pre-age 65 medical premium.
Jim
Jim, that was for
Pre-age 65 Retiree Medical benefits, when age 60 was still the retirement age. Not for those retiring due to medical conditions. What we were talking about was starting to draw sick bank at age 63.5, while still an active pilot. NOT taking either early of medical retirement. You are confused.
There's so much wrong in that post I don't really know where to start. So I'll just leave you with this - LOA 93 under Post-Retirement Medical. I await your admission that's you're wrong but don't expect it...
Jim
Jim, at age 65, there is NO Post-Retirement Medical. LOA 93 is clear. What part of that don't you understand? Under LOA 93 Sick bank not used by age 65 has zero value.
Not at all. This started when Al Legheny said accumulated sick bank was lost at retirement so east of pilots would begin depleting their accumulated sick bank starting next summer. I corrected that, only to be jumped on by 767intl as being wrong on all counts (some seem spring loaded to say that anything someone says must be wrong if that person doesn't agree with them on the Nic). So the post you quoted was explaining the contract as it pertains to sick bank to 767intl.
No, Jim, that's not how this all started. It started with comments about leaving sick leave on the books at age 65 retirement. We said if you leave it, you lose it. Under LOA 93 you can't even use accrued sick hours after retiring at age 65. (See
Post 1/1/05, Post Age 65 Retiree Coverage) You went off on some tangent that's not applicable anymore.
Nothing, but Al Legheny, 767Intl, and you were talking about early retirement. So what part early retirement being by definition "pre-age 65" don't you understand.
As for that next paragraph, it specifies the per/hour rate for sick bank if the pilot chooses to use sick bank to offset part of the cost of COBRA or take the cash payment. I've given those numbers twice already but if you think the numbers I gave are wrong, by all means feel free to quote it yourself.
So as I said, retirees can 1) use their sick bank for missed trips, 2) use it to offset the cost of COBRA, or 3) cash it in.
Not any more, Jim. And no, we weren't talking about early retirement.
Admittedly $13.50/hour isn't a fortune ($20,250 for 1500 hours) but it sure isn't "ZERO, NADA" either.
Jim
Jim, the $18.50 and $13.50/hr are dead. They died when age 60 died.
YOU'RE STILL WRONG. At 65, you get NOTHING. ZILCH. Don't believe me, call your rep. Oh, that's right, you don't have one. Note that there is NOTHING in the post-65 retirement section concerning ANY money. That's because it's NOT there. To qualify for ANY of it, you have to retire pre-65.
BY the way, I went back and read the posts. NONE of them says ANYTHING about early retirement. Only that if you retire with sick time, it's gone. So at "normal" retirement age (65) when you retire, It IS gone. They were EXACTLY RIGHT.
That's how it is, YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN.
Only then did the earlier posters start talking about staying active as pilots and using sick time, a totally different animal.
Oldie, he's never going to get it. It's tough not to pile on, especially when you got someone who is so far off the mark, won't admit it and is embarrassing himself with each defense. But the only way to expose Jim's lack of credibility is to pile on. He thinks he's some kind of revered elder statesman, trying to calm the waters. His West buddies hang on his words, like the did on hp_fas, until his legal "expertise" fell apart. At least hp_fa had the smarts to take a powder for a while.
Jim, you end this all by just saying you were mistaken. No weasel words, just you got confused and made a mistake.
