US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[informed]

I look forward to your opinions in our discussion of the UA/CO merger. IMO anyone is welcome to interject on a public forum. In fact, I won't even criticize anyone without "skin in the game."

You are trying to dust another house, while your own house needs dusting.

Save CAL Pilots!

 

[Metroyet]

You'll be waitin' a long time, laddie. Since I'm not wrong about the NIC, I'll never say that I am. What are ya gonna do, waterboard me?

You're right. It was Nic4us that called it a fake union. Since you guys generally walk in lockstep, I assumed it was your contention as well. I guess since you now believe USAPA to be a legitimate CBA for ALL USAPA members, I apologize for the incorrect assumption.

And if you're on the right side of the law, USAPA doesn't suck at all, so far. I've voted more in the last two years on important issues than I did in 20+ years in ALPA.

Dat's da fact, jack!

What's your beef with calling USAPA a "Fake Union"? USAPA is 100% fake. Period. The end. They were created in the back of a van for the SOLE, SOLITARY, SINGULAR, AND ONLY purpose to evade the Nic. award and attempt to staple 80% of America West pilots after learning that they were never going to get what they wanted as a result of their willingness to go to binding arbitration. That's it. That's what you call a legitimate Labor union? I can see attempting to screw 10% of the pilot group....but 40%?! Good Luck. You've won nothing. The 9th didn't green light a single tenant of USAPAs illegal, hind-sight driven constitution. You actually think you're closer to a ratified contract now? I hope you're right. It would be great to see that ridiculous obstacle of a joint contract removed once and for all. No going back after going "all in" on a yes vote is there?

The West is holding a royal flush. Seham is bluffing, yet is hell bent on dragging all of you into a post ratified world. I personally can't wait to see a ratified contract with a DOH integration. The Company will have no where to hide and the true worthlessness of USAPA will become painfully obvious to all pilots involved.

Bluff on.

 

[informed]

What's your beef with calling USAPA a "Fake Union"? USAPA is 100% fake. Period. The end.

NOW, THEREFORE, in accordance with Section 2, Ninth, of the RLA, as amended, and based upon its investigation pursuant thereto, the Board certifies that the USAPA has been duly designated and authorized to represent for the purposes of the RLA, as amended, the craft or class of Pilots, employees of US Airways, its successors and assigns. By direction of the NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Nobody but you was ever talking about Post-Retirement Medical. I don't know why you even brought it up.

Because of Al Legheny's incorrect statement:

If you retire with time in the sick bank it is gone forever.

That was all my post initial response was about - correcting an incorrect statement. While most/all east pilots may use up their sick bank prior to retiring, there are two other options.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

NOBODY said ANYTHING about "winning" something at the "expense of the West pilots". I said that now, a FAIR system of seniority can be negotiated, to the benefit of ALL US Airways pilots.

The West pilots won't be able to steal jobs that the East pilots have worked for for longer than most of the West guys have even been flying airplanes.

A fair integration will not be DOH with conditions and restrictions. That's why this went to binding arbitration in the first place. Because it's not fair and equitable. Even with concocted conditions and restrictions.

It's not OK for a West pilot to come and fly a widebody or take a Captain Bid in the East, but it's fair in your mind that a pilot that was furloughed on the East (even though he might have had 16 years LOS) to jump a West pilot that's been a Captain most of his career.

What is fair for you is NOT fair to the West pilots. I don't agree with the NIC, but it's closer to being fair than anything USAPA has come up with to date.

The West pilots shouldn't be penalized for the unfortunate careers most East pilots have endured. That would be thievery of the highest order.

 

[informed]

A fair integration will not be DOH with conditions and restrictions. That's why this went to binding arbitration in the first place. Because it's not fair and equitable. Even with concocted conditions and restrictions.

It's not OK for a West pilot to come and fly a widebody or take a Captain Bid in the East, but it's fair in your mind that a pilot that was furloughed on the East (even though he might have had 16 years LOS) to jump a West pilot that's been a Captain most of his career.

What is fair for you is NOT fair to the West pilots. I don't agree with the NIC, but it's closer to being fair than anything USAPA has come up with to date.

The West pilots shouldn't be penalized for the unfortunate careers most East pilots have endured. That would be thievery of the highest order.

As a Usairways pilot yourself, how many years of seniority did you loose sir?

 

[N924PS]

As a Usairways pilot yourself, how many years of seniority did you loose sir?

Welcome back EastUS!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

A fair integration will not be DOH with conditions and restrictions. That's why this went to binding arbitration in the first place. Because it's not fair and equitable. Even with concocted conditions and restrictions.

It's not OK for a West pilot to come and fly a widebody or take a Captain Bid in the East, but it's fair in your mind that a pilot that was furloughed on the East (even though he might have had 16 years LOS) to jump a West pilot that's been a Captain most of his career.

What is fair for you is NOT fair to the West pilots. I don't agree with the NIC, but it's closer to being fair than anything USAPA has come up with to date.

The West pilots shouldn't be penalized for the unfortunate careers most East pilots have endured. That would be thievery of the highest order.

There you guys go again. More of the same ol' crap about furloughed pilots taking the jobs of active Captains. NOT TRUE. NEVER WAS TRUE. AIN'T GONNA BE TRUE. With NIC or without. You keep telling yourself that garbage, and you'll start to believe it.

There will NEVER be a displacement because of the combined list. It's one of the conditions that the company put on it. NO BUMP, NO FLUSH.

Now, once the list is combined, then openings WILL go to the senior person that bids it, but NO DISPLACEMENTS. Downsizing, now that's another matter. That's what the C & Rs will protect BOTH sides from. That's why we ALL need to work together to make this airline successful. Then everybody wins. If not, everybody loses. That's the BIG PICTURE.

 

[informed]

Welcome back EastUS!

Your answer to the question of how many years you lost seniority wise due to the merger please. Your accusation of me being a past poster is incorrect.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Because of Al Legheny's incorrect statement:



That was all my post initial response was about - correcting an incorrect statement. While most/all east pilots may use up their sick bank prior to retiring, there are two other options.

Jim

Actually, YOU were wrong. Once you reach age 65, the company will NOT cover medical, whether it's your "bank time" or not. Reread LOA 93.

Al was absolutely correct. If you wait and retire at 65, the sick leave in your bank is worth ZERO, NADA. They'll ONLY fund a medical plan (at the rate of $18.50/hour of bank time) or give you a lump sum (at the rate of $13.50/bank hour) if you retire pre-65. Once you turn 65, they stop paying.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Welcome back EastUS!

That didn't answer the question EastUS asked. How many years seniority do you stand to lose if the Nic survives? (Not that I believe it will.) Tell us all just how big a dog you have in this fight.

For full disclosure (as I've indicated here many times before,) as far as seniority goes, I have no dog in this fight. But I know the difference between an attempt to be fair and a thoughtless abomination: harmful to some, richly rewarding to others.

 

[Fully Cross Utilized]

Welcome back EastUS!

Actually it's Nostradamus.

 

[Phoenix]

NOW, THEREFORE, in accordance with Section 2, Ninth, of the RLA, as amended, and based upon its investigation pursuant thereto, the Board certifies that the USAPA has been duly designated and authorized to represent for the purposes of the RLA, as amended, the craft or class of Pilots, employees of US Airways, its successors and assigns. By direction of the NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD.

That is a great example of facts. However, many will never be able to accept their lottery ticket was a fake and will always persist in calling other things fake to maintain a figment of reality for their fake lottery winnings, all facts notwithstanding.

If an eskimo denies that he lives in a barren, frozen, wasteland, who is gonna be able to persuade him? Hopeless cause.

 

[Barrister]

A fair integration will not be DOH with conditions and restrictions. That's why this went to binding arbitration in the first place. Because it's not fair and equitable. Even with concocted conditions and restrictions.

It's not OK for a West pilot to come and fly a widebody or take a Captain Bid in the East, but it's fair in your mind that a pilot that was furloughed on the East (even though he might have had 16 years LOS) to jump a West pilot that's been a Captain most of his career.

What is fair for you is NOT fair to the West pilots. I don't agree with the NIC, but it's closer to being fair than anything USAPA has come up with to date.

The West pilots shouldn't be penalized for the unfortunate careers most East pilots have endured. That would be thievery of the highest order.

Well then sir why don't you spell it out for us...what don't you like about the NIC (DOA)

Lemme get this straight ......if an Easy guy was furloughed at the time of the merger.....but is recalled.....
and his LOS is longer than a West Capt.....are you suggesting that he be placed below the 8 year West Capt......
An East guy with 12 years LOS should get a Capt seat when one comes OPEN.......
so put to rest this whole notion of stealing something......nothing is stolen......when you get the seat
when the is an opening.......NUFF SAID.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[BoeingBoy]

Actually, YOU were wrong. Once you reach age 65, the company will NOT cover medical, whether it's your "bank time" or not. Reread LOA 93.

Correcting east posters is getting to be a full time job. I did not say that the company will cover medical - they won't pay for it, However, retiring pilots qualify for 18 months of COBRA coverage and pilots with accumulated sick bank may use that sick bank to pay part of the cost of of COBRA. That will be less than the 18 months of COBRA (for pilot and spouse the 2010 cost of COBRA for pilot and spouse is $1145.90 and dental is $59.28).

Quoting LOA 93:

Allow post-retirees to use accrued sick bank pay starting at retirement to pay retiree medical costs

1. A pilot retiree may apply up to 25 sick hours per month, valued at $18.50 per hour ($432.50) to a pre-age 65 medical premium.

Jim