US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[nic4us]

Why would a lady friend of mine need a "manzierre"?

On second thought, I guess I could use several of those "manzierre"s.

Do not need an Evelyn Wood course to comprehend this bit of reading.

See how things look a little different when you take them out of context?

Seham is good at doing that with case law. Theur is good at doing it in usapa updates. Cleary, well he is not much good at anything other than asking dumb questions of the CEO at crew news sessions.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Do not need an Evelyn Wood course to comprehend this bit of reading.

See how things look a little different when you take them out of context?

Seham is good at doing that with case law. Theur is good at doing it in usapa updates. Cleary, well he is not much good at anything other than asking dumb questions of the CEO at crew news sessions.

Except that he's waaay better than those two West guys that kept trying to back Doug into the corner about the NIC. You guys are cracking me up!

The NIC is DEAD!

SSM&P are brilliant!

USAPA Forever!

 

[767jetz]

The NIC is DEAD!

SSM&P are brilliant!

USAPA Forever!

IF you are proven right, and IF you end up with a new contract with DOH actually implemented and not blocked by further law suits, AND all legal challenges to the said contract and list are halted, I will be one of the first to come on here and admit that you were right and it's time for everyone to move on. Until then, I continue to cautiously believe the west will ultimately prevail, with the further belief that there is a long road ahead and the outcome is far from certain for either side.

If you end up being wrong, will you do the same? After all the chest pounding and bravado and posts like the above, will you man up and admit you were wrong? Or will you run away and hide in lurking mode, unable to accept the final outcome, looking for someone else to blame? For someone so confident of the outcome, even in the face of continued stalemate, you sure do seem to need to beat the same "oldie" drum.

When the 9th ruled, I was the first to say that I was surprised at the outcome. In the past, such as when the Nicolau award first came out, or when you lost the first DFR suit, after months worth of supremely confident, and even cocky posts to the contrary, you and many others disappeared from this forum. Then once you had your talking points from USAPA, you came back pointing the finger at all the people whose fault it was.

Let's see how you handle things the next time things don't work out exactly the way you hoped. How a person deals with loss says as much about their character as how they deal with victory. Seems like now that nothing is moving in any direction, you guys have reverted to throwing insults and boob comments back and forth. :blink:

 

[luvthe9]

IF you are proven right, and IF you end up with a new contract with DOH actually implemented and not blocked by further law suits, AND all legal challenges to the said contract and list are halted, I will be one of the first to come on here and admit that you were right and it's time for everyone to move on. Until then, I continue to cautiously believe the west will ultimately prevail, with the further belief that there is a long road ahead and the outcome is far from certain for either side.

If you end up being wrong, will you do the same? After all the chest pounding and bravado and posts like the above, will you man up and admit you were wrong? Or will you run away and hide in lurking mode, unable to accept the final outcome, looking for someone else to blame? For someone so confident of the outcome, even in the face of continued stalemate, you sure do seem to need to beat the same "oldie" drum.

When the 9th ruled, I was the first to say that I was surprised at the outcome. In the past, such as when the Nicolau award first came out, or when you lost the first DFR suit, after months worth of supremely confident, and even cocky posts to the contrary, you and many others disappeared from this forum. Then once you had your talking points from USAPA, you came back pointing the finger at all the people whose fault it was.

Let's see how you handle things the next time things don't work out exactly the way you hoped. How a person deals with loss says as much about their character as how they deal with victory. Seems like now that nothing is moving in any direction, you guys have reverted to throwing insults and boob comments back and forth. :blink:

Me? I am going to apply for family leave act, and immediately go on the UAL pilot boards and spend all my energy telling them how to conduct their business with Continental. That is a plan!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

... Seems like now that nothing is moving in any direction, you guys have reverted to throwing insults and boob comments back and forth. :blink:

If you gotta have a one track mind, can you think of a better track?

Oh, we'll win. Count on it. SSM&P and Baptist & Wilder are the FOREMOST labor lawyers in the USA dealing with the RLA. They say the East is right. Common sense says the east is right.

And by the way, I never "left" as you say. I just chose not to respond to the childishness and bravado of the other side, as they reveilled in their glorified "lottery ticket", to use the words of the company president.

I am right, and owe no apology to anyone, least of all anyone who purports to having no interest in this matter, other than supporting a few so-called "friends", even when they are clearly wrong and trying to steal others' jobs.

Come on, we all know there's more to your connection with this, so why don't you just 'fess up.

 

[767intl]

It appears to me that Jim may be fishing to get the less astute members of this board to admit to doing something illegal, unethical, and not espoused by our bargaining agent. Sick time is EXACTLY that. It is NOT a means to an end to obfuscate the retirement age and get away with "milking" a system of 1 and 1/2 years of work. I use sick time for its negotiated purpose. I am certain that the VAST majority here do the same, regardless of questionable posts previously written.

Amen, Heretic. It looks like that's what he's fishing for, as he loses credibility. His point doesn't make any sense.

Pay, as in dollars/hour not hours. Without looking it up, cashing in sick band pays about $13-14 per/hour as a lump sum. Using it to offset medical, including COBRA, pays about $18/hour for the time on one's sick bank. Of course, using it up prior to retirement pays the rate of whatever a pilot is flying.

Then maybe you should look it up and quote a little chapter and verse. WHERE are you getting these $13-14 and $18/hr numbers? From some medical retiree program? I get $144/hour when I am sick, up to 85hrs/month. If I have 1500 hrs when I turn 63.5 and have some medically disqualifying event, I can remain an active pilot, drawing down sick bank until age 65. You're obviously confusing utilizing sick hour credit for some kind of retirement scheme or "Davey Dollars" you got. were you a PC-3 or S-4 retiree? Is that where you're getting these numbers?

I'm not talking about pilots taking medical retirement, you obviously are. It's about a 63.5 yr old pilot with 1500 hrs sick credit. He doesn't have to retire. If he can't work, he continues to be carried as an active pilot, getting 85 hrs/month, full medical benefits, until age 65. Then you go straight to Medicare, no COBRA.

If that doesn't make sense to you, I'm wasting band-width.

However, using sick bank up is easier said than done if one has a significant amount of sick time. Maybe you need to be more familiar with the contract you work under.

I think we're all aware how Section 14 works, with enough safe-guards in the language to stop gaming the system by either company or pilot.

Retirees have to pay for health insurance, even COBRA, until medicare kicks in. If a pilot retires early, as as Al Agheny said many would starting next summer, they can use the sick bank to pay for that health care. So yes, they can cash in the sick bank and pay for medical coverage out of that, use it up prior to early retirement and pay for medical coverage out of pocket, or use it to pay for health coverage at a higher dollar value than cashing it in. That's a decision each pilot retiring early would have to make depending on their personal situation.

Again, you miss the whole point. "Retirement" is an option. No pilot with 1500 hrs sick bank and unable to work at age 63.5 is going to "retire" rather than remain active, and drawing down 85/month if his sick bank allows. What part of all that are you missing? I heard in contract negotiations the company wants to offer dimes on the dollar to those who work to 65 and don't use up their sick hours, but that has nothing to do with the 63.5 guy with 1500 hours.

If you're active, drawing down sick leave, you DON'T NEED COBRA! What part of that you missing?

It may or may not affect who has to pay for medical coverage prior to medicare, the cost of that medical coverage, and even what it covers. Time will tell. Jim

What are you saying? Time will tell what? Jim, can't you just for once admit you made a mistake, misunderstood the argument and let it go? Or do like hp_fa. When his credibility tanked after the Ninth ruling, he still logs on, but hasn't posted on this topic in almost a month.

 

[767jetz]

If you gotta have a one track mind, can you think of a better track?

Better track than insults? Yes, I can think of a something better. Boobs, maybe not.

SSM&P and Baptist & Wilder ... say the East is right.

It's true that everyone has an opinion.

Common sense says the east is right.

This is where you are clearly wrong. It's no more than your opinion.

I just chose not to respond to the childishness and bravado of the other side, as they reveilled in their glorified "lottery ticket"

The same as your childishness and bravado, no?

I am right, and owe no apology

No need to apologize for having an opinion. Stating opinion as fact however, and attacking anyone who disagrees is a totally different matter, and reflects on one's integrity.

Come on, we all know there's more to your connection with this, so why don't you just 'fess up.

By "we all" I assume you are talking about those who only agree with your one sided view of the world. I've already clearly "fessed up." You can read whatever you want into it, just like your legal interpretations. My advice is to take things more at face value. You'd be wrong less often than when you interject your opinions as fact.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Better track than insults? Yes, I can think of a something better. Boobs, maybe not.



It's true that everyone has an opinion.



This is where you are clearly wrong. It's no more than your opinion.



The same as your childishness and bravado, no?



No need to apologize for having an opinion. Stating opinion as fact however, and attacking anyone who disagrees is a totally different matter, and reflects on one's integrity.



By "we all" I assume you are talking about those who only agree with your one sided view of the world. I've already clearly "fessed up." You can read whatever you want into it, just like your legal interpretations. My advice is to take things more at face value. You'd be wrong less often than when you interject your opinions as fact.

More "integrity" BS. You guys really need to get out more.

Yes, YOU LOST!

and

YES, YOU"LL CONTINUE TO LOSE!

More than my opinion, FACT!

You guys started the "boob" thing. Not me. I just said that paying for my "fake union" (your words again) was like paying for "fake mammaries", BEST MONEY I'VE EVER SPENT.

Oh, and one more thing. ALPA SUX!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Amen, Heretic. It looks like that's what he's fishing for, as he loses credibility. His point doesn't make any sense.

There's so much wrong in that post I don't really know where to start. So I'll just leave you with this - LOA 93 under Post-Retirement Medical. I await your admission that's you're wrong but don't expect it...

Jim

 

[767jetz]

Me? I am going to apply for family leave act, and immediately go on the UAL pilot boards and spend all my energy telling them how to conduct their business with Continental. That is a plan!

I look forward to your opinions in our discussion of the UA/CO merger. IMO anyone is welcome to interject on a public forum. In fact, I won't even criticize anyone without "skin in the game."

FYI, my family leave is now over. Daughter is 3 months old on Monday. Back to the exciting world of aviation!

 

[N924PS]

More "integrity" BS. You guys really need to get out more.

Yes, YOU LOST!

and

YES, YOU"LL CONTINUE TO LOSE!

More than my opinion, FACT!

You seem convinced that you've WON something at the expense of the West pilots. As yet, you haven't won anything. Not until the courts have their final say, which is clearly NOT what happened in SFO. And will be many years down the road before resolution...............

 

[767jetz]

YES, YOU"LL CONTINUE TO LOSE!

ALPA SUX!

Hey, I've got no problem with your OPINION. I've even said that it could go either way, although my bet is on the west.

Your arrogant attitude is not only what keeps me coming back here, it will also be the reason so many others will unmercifully rub your face in your loss if that day comes. Enjoy your moment though. You will get exactly what you deserve if things don't turn out the way you hope. (Although I still suspect you will run and hide if that day comes, rather than man up and admit you were wrong.)

PS. I never used the words "fake union."

PS2. So does USAPA. Only more.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You seem convinced that you've WON something at the expense of the West pilots. As yet, you haven't won anything. Not until the courts have their final say, which is clearly NOT what happened in SFO. And will be many years down the road before resolution...............

NOBODY said ANYTHING about "winning" something at the "expense of the West pilots". I said that now, a FAIR system of seniority can be negotiated, to the benefit of ALL US Airways pilots.

The West pilots won't be able to steal jobs that the East pilots have worked for for longer than most of the West guys have even been flying airplanes.

That's what I said. Along with: "WOOHOO, WE WON", and "THE NIC IS DEAD!"

That's what they said in SFO. And, I think we're MUCH closer to a ratifiable contract now than we've been since the NIC came out.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Hey, I've got no problem with your OPINION. I've even said that it could go either way, although my bet is on the west.

Your arrogant attitude is not only what keeps me coming back here, it will also be the reason so many others will unmercifully rub your face in your loss if that day comes. Enjoy your moment though. You will get exactly what you deserve if things don't turn out the way you hope. (Although I still suspect you will run and hide if that day comes, rather than man up and admit you were wrong.)

PS. I never used the words "fake union."

PS2. So does USAPA. Only more.

You'll be waitin' a long time, laddie. Since I'm not wrong about the NIC, I'll never say that I am. What are ya gonna do, waterboard me?

You're right. It was Nic4us that called it a fake union. Since you guys generally walk in lockstep, I assumed it was your contention as well. I guess since you now believe USAPA to be a legitimate CBA for ALL USAPA members, I apologize for the incorrect assumption.

And if you're on the right side of the law, USAPA doesn't suck at all, so far. I've voted more in the last two years on important issues than I did in 20+ years in ALPA.

Dat's da fact, jack!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

There's so much wrong in that post I don't really know where to start. So I'll just leave you with this - LOA 93 under Post-Retirement Medical. I await your admission that's you're wrong but don't expect it...

Jim

Nobody but you was ever talking about Post-Retirement Medical. I don't know why you even brought it up. They were discussing sick leave prior to retirement.

Once you turn 65, there is no longer need for COBRA. The NYCbusdriver tried to tell you that, but you ain't listenin'.

He's not wrong. You brought up a totally different subject.

I agree with whomever said that leavin' money on the table would be wrong. I wouldn't expect too many to do it.