US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/29- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Metroyet]

A thing for all on this board to consider....

The current East Agreement allows for a maximum of 1500 hours in the sick bank. I have almost that much and there are others with well over 1000 hours. The Age 65 rule was signed in December of 07. The most senior East pilots with 1500 hours can "get sick" in June of next year and walk out the door in December of 2012, after they have exhausted their sick banks, and retire.

If you retire with time in the sick bank it is gone forever. Current negotiations and company offers would reduce the sick bank to some very low level and offer only partial credit for current accumulated "excess" sick time.

I really do think we will see an increasingly rapid exodus off the property next summer. Anyone who is able to get his sick time used up prior to retirement will do so. Or if they are worried about taking it all at once they will commence to burning it up a section at a time rather than risk losing it.

I believe that this is what the company is thinking when they say they will have to look at staffing levels. I believe sick calls will be going up sharply soon.

Agreed. Anybody leaving anything on the table to the airline for free is a fool.

 

[nic4us]

Wrong. born in '64 and more than that west senior to him, almost all I believe.

I could not find who the east author of the 1.5 year delay to upgrade statistic was but can offer this.

Monda was #2942 on your list. If your list already had 1500 (a little over half) captains, that would mean Monda would have to wait for 1442 retirements to upgrade. 1442/300per year attrition=4.8 years.

Now put the entire West list on top of him. 1884, but a little over half are already captains, say 950. 1884-950=934.

So now he must wait until 1442+934=2376. But the attrition rate has also grown to 375 per year. So 2376/375 per year=6.336years.

6.3-4.8=1.5 years.

Your young 87 hire friend would have had his upgrade postponed in the same manner, but of course it would have come much sooner depending how much senior he is to Monda.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Agreed. Anybody leaving anything on the table to the airline for free is a fool.

Depending on Obamacare, there is a wrinkle...well, two actually. Nobody retiring with time in their sick bank will leave it on the table. It just won't pay nearly as much if cashed in as it would in missed trips. Also, remaining sick bank can be used to "pay" for COBRA coverage till Medicare kicks in at 65. Again, not as much as it would pay for missed trips, but better than cashing it in.

Obviously individuals would decide which was best for them and their family - use it up, cash it in, or use it to pay for COBRA - depending on what the health insurance landscape looks like as they're making that decision.

Jim

 

[surfer305]

who did we purchase/lease these new 75's from??

This information came straight from Maintience in PIT, where these A/C are being process into the fleet.

 

[cynic]

The FAA list only shows 24 on the property. i would think that it would be up to date, but I could be wrong.

 

[luvthe9]

Damages without Liability!!! This should not surprise us given their views and position......Seniority without Years of Service!!!

I love it!!!

Another entitlement. We demand to be compensated for years when we weren't even on the property! How dare they not give me time served over another pilot when I was flipping burgers in high school!

 

[luvthe9]

Correction, years served on their paper routes in elementary school!

 

[nic4us]

Another entitlement. We demand to be compensated for years when we weren't even on the property! How dare they not give me time served over another pilot when I was flipping burgers in high school!

Your attempts at humor fall on deaf ears because the fake union would like to put east pilots with less LOS, who were furloughed at the time of the merger, above West captains with more time served.

But go ahead and laugh it up amongst the east pilot group. It is good therapy, of which you are most deserving. Try to keep that happy attitude when the realization that the path the little lawyer has led you down is a dead end that parks you on the cul de sac of impasse to a ratified contract.

By the way, I did not flip burgers in high scool, but an east friend of mine managed an In and Out burger while he was furloughed, does that count?

 

[luvthe9]

Your attempts at humor fall on deaf ears because the fake union would like to put east pilots with less LOS, who were furloughed at the time of the merger, above West captains with more time served.

But go ahead and laugh it up amongst the east pilot group. It is good therapy, of which you are most deserving. Try to keep that happy attitude when the realization that the path the little lawyer has led you down is a dead end that parks you on the cul de sac of impasse to a ratified contract.

By the way, I did not flip burgers in high scool, but an east friend of mine managed an In and Out burger while he was furloughed, does that count?

Love In and Out. Just an update- the pension investigation is making some very good headway. Google Seabury Group and their involvement in the merger. Interesting how they tried to do the merge a yr. prior, but the main obstacle was the USAirways pilots pension. So I guess that was taken away also to make it all possible for you to merge with us. We certainly paid a big price but get little recognition for it. Anyway, I honestly feel the end of this summer will be ripe with good tidings with regard to the pension. The PBGC apparently already tried to settle once in this. The next is LOA 93 and pay restoration. My opinion- a victory is going to come the way for the East. LOA 93 had an end date with regards to pay. There is no getting around it. This will be another big win. Moral of the story? The greed of this corporation is going to be reconciled very shortly. There were way too many victories in their camp during bankruptcy. The tide has changed, and the East pilots are going to have some serious coup coming. It is about time. Say what you want, there is going to be some serious celebrating.

 

[767intl]

Depending on Obamacare, there is a wrinkle...well, two actually. Nobody retiring with time in their sick bank will leave it on the table. It just won't pay nearly as much if cashed in as it would in missed trips.

Jim, since there's always a some "wrinkle" with you, I guess you're just smarter than the rest of us. Your post makes no sense. "Won't pay nearly as much?" You've got to be kidding. 85 hours is 85 hours, whether you fly it or draw it out of your sick bank. If you're running up more than 85/month, you're only sustaining pilot unemployment. If you're using sick leave for legitimate medical conditions, you're decreasing unemployment (ie, recalls). If you're flying when you shouldn't be, you're a fool and endangering the flying public.

Also, remaining sick bank can be used to "pay" for COBRA coverage till Medicare kicks in at 65. Again, not as much as it would pay for missed trips, but better than cashing it in.

Where are you getting this? If you start drawing on a full sick bank at age 63.5, what do you need COBRA for if you got enough sick leave to get you to age 65 when "Medicare kicks in?" You can't take your bank with you in cash. There's no covering a gap between age 60 and 65 any more. Pilot retirement age is the same age as Medicare kicking in. Except for meager per diem, drawing down a full bank of sick leave starting at age 63.5 is a financial wash with continuing to fly when you shouldn't be. So what is your point?

Obviously individuals would decide which was best for them and their family - use it up, cash it in, or use it to pay for COBRA - depending on what the health insurance landscape looks like as they're making that decision.
Jim

"Cash it in" for what? We're not in 2005 anymore. And what does Obama-care have to do with any of this? It only takes money out of our pockets until it finally starts in 2016 (if it ever starts at all).

 

[767jetz]

Interesting how they tried to do the merge a yr. prior, but the main obstacle was the USAirways pilots pension. So I guess that was taken away also to make it all possible for you to merge with us. We certainly paid a big price but get little recognition for it.

Hold on now. That sounds like an ENORMOUS assumption you slipped in there. Do you have any proof to back up that assumption?

Sounds like you are saying that your pension was terminated to make the merger possible, and as such you deserve credit for it. Maybe you would be entitled to something in return if you have proof that the merger was the sole driving motive for termination. I doubt you do, considering that every airline that went through bankruptcy in recent years emerged with terminated (or at least frozen) pensions in order to secure exit financing. With US being in BK for the second time in 2 years, there was plenty of documented information showing the need (or creditor's demand) to terminate the pensions in order to emerge. That was regardless of the merger. If US had found financing absent the merger, the pensions still would have been terminated.

Let's be clear about this. Your pension termination had to do with the financial crisis US was in at the time, and probably also the political landscape, but not the merger. It was a casualty of bankruptcy, not the merger. Just like the rest of us who visited the courts during the last administration. (Notice that GM and Chrysler's BK was much more labor friendly, and less friendly to the creditors.)

I'm not saying that all airline management at the time did not have their cross-hairs on our pensions during the BK fiesta. I also think that they planned to terminate them even if there was a creative way to save them. Saying it made the merger happen is complete stretch of the truth.

 

[Phoenix]

.... the fake union ...

How come your lawyers never told the 9th that Wake had ruled against a fake union? Oh, that's right. He didn't.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim, since there's always a some "wrinkle" with you, I guess you're just smarter than the rest of us. Your post makes no sense. "Won't pay nearly as much?" You've got to be kidding. 85 hours is 85 hours, whether you fly it or draw it out of your sick bank.

Pay, as in dollars/hour not hours. Without looking it up, cashing in sick band pays about $13-14 per/hour as a lump sum. Using it to offset medical, including COBRA, pays about $18/hour for the time on one's sick bank. Of course, using it up prior to retirement pays the rate of whatever a pilot is flying. However, using sick bank up is easier said than done if one has a significant amount of sick time. Maybe you need to be more familiar with the contract you work under.

Where are you getting this? If you start drawing on a full sick bank at age 63.5, what do you need COBRA for if you got enough sick leave to get you to age 65 when "Medicare kicks in?" You can't take your bank with you in cash. There's no covering a gap between age 60 and 65 any more. Pilot retirement age is the same age as Medicare kicking in.

Retirees have to pay for health insurance, even COBRA, until medicare kicks in. If a pilot retires early, as as Al Agheny said many would starting next summer, they can use the sick bank to pay for that health care. So yes, they can cash in the sick bank and pay for medical coverage out of that, use it up prior to early retirement and pay for medical coverage out of pocket, or use it to pay for health coverage at a higher dollar value than cashing it in. That's a decision each pilot retiring early would have to make depending on their personal situation.

And what does Obama-care have to do with any of this?

It may or may not affect who has to pay for medical coverage prior to medicare, the cost of that medical coverage, and even what it covers. Time will tell.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Google Seabury Group and their involvement in the merger. Interesting how they tried to do the merge a yr. prior, but the main obstacle was the USAirways pilots pension. So I guess that was taken away also to make it all possible for you to merge with us. We certainly paid a big price but get little recognition for it.

While there were discussions with HP management in 2004, the pension was terminated in 2003. Do you have anything concrete showing that the two were connected or just more BS.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

How come your lawyers never told the 9th that Wake had ruled against a fake union? Oh, that's right. He didn't.

Of course he didn't. The jury ruled in favor of the plaintiffs that brought suit against the fake union.