US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[AWE Dog]

Dog,

The difference between Spirit and AWA? Spirit did not aquire USAirways.

The difference between Spirit and AA? Spirit can actually stay out of bankruptcy by paying below industry wages.

Nic4us, Your sharp, Yup it's those high wages that put U in bankruptcy. I don't know how long Southwest will be able to avoid it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I disagree. He worked for TPG at CO express, then Gate Gourmet.

So you work for Fidelity, I guess...or Wellington...

It's one thing to move a day or two of passengers to help folks get where they're going. It's totally something else to set up a route network to steal their business on an ongoing basis.

You're assuming a strike will last "a day or two" (or is it ok to move the Spirit pilot's passengers as long as it's a day at a time?). You'll also note that I never said a word about another airline taking over their route network - as someone else said, no airline has the extra planes sitting around to do that, including US.

So you define "struck work" as flying a route, while I define it as moving the passengers as well. Some unionist - taking advantage of another pilot group's strike to aide your company and possibly your prospects. No wonder you want to put furloughed pilots (at the time of the merger - don't want you reading anything into that) ahead of 757 captains.

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

Some unionist YOU are. Now we see why you think it's okay for guys with 17 years less time on the property to steal jobs.

I'm sure he is OK with ALPA letting all the CAL scabs back in to ALPA.

 

[oscarjazz]

If Spirit cannot accommodate their passengers then they have to try to book them on a competing carrier. If they cannot book them on a competing carrier, then they have the right to refund the ticket price. The standard interline re-booking rate is substantially higher than the average fare a Spirit passenger pays. If other airlines put in additional capacity, then more passengers can be re-booked on the higher interline fares and less can be given the lower refund. Therefore, other carriers adding capacity puts more economic pressure on Spirit management to settle the strike expeditiously. That is the concept behind the Spirit pilots request. They want other carriers to add capacity to bleed their company until they settle.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

If Spirit cannot accommodate their passengers then they have to try to book them on a competing carrier. If they cannot book them on a competing carrier, then they have the right to refund the ticket price. The standard interline re-booking rate is substantially higher than the average fare a Spirit passenger pays. If other airlines put in additional capacity, then more passengers can be re-booked on the higher interline fares and less can be given the lower refund. Therefore, other carriers adding capacity puts more economic pressure on Spirit management to settle the strike expeditiously. That is the concept behind the Spirit pilots request. They want other carriers to add capacity to bleed their company until they settle.

Sounds plausible on the face of it, but I concur with an earlier poster that no one knows what kind of deals management teams are making that aren't public knowledge. How can we be sure that any increased revenue isn't just paid back to Spirit like a wet lease operation? All managements are aware that labor problems can occur. This could be a backdoor way for ALL airline management teams to fight labor groups.

If they do go on strike, they need to get the AFA to organize it. That was the only effective strike i've seen at this company. It was brilliant!

 

[psw737]

Spirit's management has repeatedly said they would rather shut the place down or sell it then offer an industry standard contract. I think the stike will happen and last more than a few days. Pretty small airline and a small cog in the overall tpg/indigo picture.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Spirit's management has repeatedly said they would rather shut the place down or sell it then offer an industry standard contract. I think the stike will happen and last more than a few days. Pretty small airline and a small cog in the overall tpg/indigo picture.

USAPA needs to observe this closely. LCC could be the next airline in this position.

 

[nic4us]

Nic4us, Your sharp, Yup it's those high wages that put U in bankruptcy.

Did not say that. Said USAirways could not get out of bankruptcy, even while paying low wages.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If Spirit cannot accommodate their passengers then they have to try to book them on a competing carrier. If they cannot book them on a competing carrier, then they have the right to refund the ticket price.

I believe that other airlines who serve both the origin and destination will honor Spirit tickets on a space available basis with payment of a $50-$100 charge ( a revenue windfall for a seat that would otherwise be empty). That was the case when Skybus shut down. Prior to 2006 I think it was a DOT rule, but it's just guidance now.

Jim

 

[Real tired]

I remember quite a few years back when Northwest went on strike, the company added extra segments between PIT and DTW... a route not served by us at the time. Several pilots refused this flying thinking it was struck work. After talking to their MEC, our union said, at the request of the NWA MEC, it is not struck work and that the NWA MEC encouraged us to fly it as long as it did not benefit NWA.

Man, some real stand up union people here.

I remember in '92, some real stand up union pilots crossing our line, giving us the "one finger salute", and gladly flying their flight after it was worked on by secretaries and mail boys.

And from some of my NWA Mechanic friends, those were some stand up guys there too that helped support the striking NWA people by flying their flight while being worked on by scabs.

Yeah, "struck work"......"refused"......"pilot", that's rich.

 

[Hate2fly]

Wow! Tough week for the desert judge! Talk about getting spanked.

By decision this day the Court of Appeals ruled that this action should be dismissed for lack of ripeness. Addington v. US Airline Pilots Association, No. 09-16564 (9th Cir. June 4, 2010)......Neil V. Wake

Wake should have gone to Penn.

USAPA is on a roll.

Victory in the 9th!

PBGC law suit getting interesting.

LOA 93 pay restoration in the fall.

MDA!

6 1/2 months we in the east collect another 10 grand!

USAPA best money I ever spent!

Hate

 

[233KILLS]

LOA 93 pay restoration in the fall.


Loa93 win does not mean anything. Why? usapa has said for 2 years now that arbitration ruling is just a proposal and the company will not pay it. The east side will watch there Loa93 pay sit on the shelf with the Nic.

 

[nic4us]

LOA 93 pay restoration in the fall.


Loa93 win does not mean anything. Why? usapa has said for 2 years now that arbitration ruling is just a proposal and the company will not pay it. The east side will watch there Loa93 pay sit on the shelf with the Nic.

Actually Kills, I know you are being facetious, but I expect the company will honor any arbitrators ruling.

I hope they get it. But I put their odds at around 1 in 30.

Bright side for the West is if they get it, they won't get it for long. They will get made an offer they can't refuse.

 

[Barrister]

Actually Kills, I know you are being facetious, but I expect the company will honor any arbitrators ruling.

I hope they get it. But I put their odds at around 1 in 30.

Bright side for the West is if they get it, they won't get it for long. They will get made an offer they can't refuse.

Speaking of this I had a BIG thought. Lets say Parker puts at least some decent money on the table.
I don't have the exact numbers but lets say that we have 4000 pilots. 1700+- out West and 2300 +-
out East. Lets say a TA passes with 4000 voting and 3000 OR MORE VOTE FOR THE TA........in other
words, half of the WEST votes for something that does NOT contain the NIC. How does that affect your
DFR suit. Is the angry FO club out West gonna have all of the Captains on board when they know that at MOST
20-30 guys want PHX and the rest of us will never go West. Better take a poll in your own backyard!!!!!
Scary stuff man!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHO YA GONNA CALL!!!!!!!!!!

NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

Speaking of this I had a BIG thought. Lets say Parker puts at least some decent money on the table.
I don't have the exact numbers but lets say that we have 4000 pilots. 1700+- out West and 2300 +-
out East. Lets say a TA passes with 4000 voting and 3000 OR MORE VOTE FOR THE TA........in other
words, half of the WEST votes for something that does NOT contain the NIC. How does that affect your
DFR suit. Is the angry FO club out West gonna have all of the Captains on board when they know that at MOST
20-30 guys want PHX and the rest of us will never go West. Better take a poll in your own backyard!!!!!
Scary stuff man!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHO YA GONNA CALL!!!!!!!!!!

NPJB

The Nicolau and no money for the west will not pass.

A contract that give 90% of the money to the east and no Nicolau will not pass.

A fair contract means the Nicolau and money. A total package.

My guess is about 10% from each side will move. 170 go east 270 come west. Now tell us who gets hurt in that deal? Most of those 270 will already be captains. The 170 will come from all levels of senority.