US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[psw737]

Who are the big carriers there now? Isn't the business there based on the cruise industry, which by the way, has been in a slump for years? I think the only way Spirit could pull it off was through artificially low costs, mainly by not payimg employees near industry standard wages. I also think that Spirit has sizable operations in LGA and MYR. I'd really like to see TPG ran out of this industry forever. That's where that idiot "just call me Dave" came from.

So much for charging for carryons.

Spirit has maybe 10 flights a day from MYR and about the same from LGA maybe 20 from DTW. The Bulk of the 150 flight a day operation
is the 80 flights a day out of FLL. Spirit does have low costs, the funny thing is there 320 pay isn't a whole lot different than ours. their productivity is a lot less than ours also. I know this because I used to work there, nothing like always having a minimum of 4 days off between trips and usually 5 or 6 days. I'm pretty sure this clause in their contract that guarantees them them minimum of 4 days off between trips and all of the soft time they have is a major sticking point in their negotiations as the pilots don't want to give it up.

I think the bulk of their traffic is all of the foreigners that they bus into FLL and onward. Terminal 4 at any given in time is like a minature ellis island. They have a decent route network out of FLL and I think it could actually be grown. They absolutely pack their aircraft, 319's with 150 seats, 320 with 178 seats and the few 321's they have seat 218, and they are always jammed full to the islands and central/south america.

 

[AWE Dog]

I think the only way Spirit could pull it off was through artificially low costs, mainly by not payimg employees near industry standard wages.


[/quote]
Oldie, I thought you were refering to America West for a second?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I think the only way Spirit could pull it off was through artificially low costs, mainly by not payimg employees near industry standard wages.

Oldie, I thought you were refering to America West for a second?

...if the shoe fits.....

 

[nic4us]

I agree. Struck work is struck work. The idea that another group would come in, even if it doesn't benefit the company on strike, and possibly "steal" business is deplorable. It means that a lot of those other pilots' jobs won't even exist when the strike is over. Another case of ALPA injustice.

Oh,man....I did not know the rumor was connected to an impending stike.

I am with Oldie on this. Spirit goes on strike and that changes the equation. We do not know what behind closed doors agreements are made between corporate executives. Our job should be to offer support and assistance to the Spirit pilots. Frankly, if they set up a picket in DTW, I would feel uncomfortable crossing that line to fly DTW-PHX, and simply would not fly a newly added DTW-FLL.

I want our furloughs back, I want LCC to succeed, but there are certain prices I am not willing to pay to make that happen.

 

[nic4us]

I think the only way Spirit could pull it off was through artificially low costs, mainly by not payimg employees near industry standard wages.


Oldie, I thought you were refering to America West for a second?

Dog,

The difference between Spirit and AWA? Spirit did not aquire USAirways.

The difference between Spirit and AA? Spirit can actually stay out of bankruptcy by paying below industry wages.

 

[767jetz]

Another case of ALPA injustice.

I'm glad we agree on something. But Honestly Oldie, do we have to make EVERYTHING political. I posted the info because I thought it would be useful and help the Spirit pilot cause. Not to make a political point.

Sometimes a little discretion before the Pavlov "anti-alpa" response would be in order. These guys are about to go on strike. Let's respect what they are doing without disparaging their union for the moment.

I personally would not want to fly any extra flying UA put on Spirit's routes, but that's a personal choice. Since you brought it up, I want to clarify for others that this is not an "ALPA injustice" but the wishes of the Spirit pilots as communicated by their MEC. They are encouraging it to protect their passengers since their dispute is with the company and not the traveling public. They also are using that position as leverage with the company, which is their choice. They clearly defined in their letter what they do and do not consider struck work.

Good luck to all the Spirit employees. Pilot or not you are all fighting a just cause against an obviously destructive an anti-labor management team. We wish you success in your fight and hope your solidarity brings the company to their senses.

 

[Crzipilot]

As far as the FLL being a money loser if we were to try it again, Spirit has managed to make some decent profits with it through the worst of times recently. They have a very limited route network for connectivity also so I would think a larger airline could fair well there.

Everyone forgetting who the head of Spirit is???? And is it just a coincidence how Spirit has expanded a lout out of FLL.

If I remember correctly Baldanza was instrumental in getting US FLL focus city going. Shortly before he left, they pulled FLL down, and he goes to Spirit, and expands them into many of the desitnations that US had gone.

Some of the contention I hear is the fact spirit Profited 1.8 Million or Billion last year, and they want pay cuts from their pilots. In addition they want to redo seniority, where if a pilot flies less than 850hours for the year, he doesn't get his yearly pay increase, or goes backwards or something like that.

With Spirit gone, I can see them hiring baldanza back to be VP of FLL ops or some crap like that....ha

 

[psw737]

Everyone forgetting who the head of Spirit is???? And is it just a coincidence how Spirit has expanded a lout out of FLL.

If I remember correctly Baldanza was instrumental in getting US FLL focus city going. Shortly before he left, they pulled FLL down, and he goes to Spirit, and expands them into many of the desitnations that US had gone.

Some of the contention I hear is the fact spirit Profited 1.8 Million or Billion last year, and they want pay cuts from their pilots. In addition they want to redo seniority, where if a pilot flies less than 850hours for the year, he doesn't get his yearly pay increase, or goes backwards or something like that.

With Spirit gone, I can see them hiring baldanza back to be VP of FLL ops or some crap like that....ha

It is pretty ironic and if this were to happen, it would not surprise me at all if Baldanza came back to US. Stranger things have happened.

 

[cleardirect]

The reality is it is difficult for airlines to shift flying mid month. Most airlines especially ours don’t have extra planes and crew sitting around looking for something to do. The schedules are built. At the most I don’t think US Airways could put more than 2-3 flights on any of Spirits routes.

The AWA guys also have a little experience with Bill Franke. I think is or was the CEO over at Spirit. That is the one that needs to be run out of the airline business.

 

[nic4us]

The AWA guys also have a little experience with Bill Franke. I think is or was the CEO over at Spirit. That is the one that needs to be run out of the airline business.

Bill Franke

Man, that suit looks worse than my uniform jacket after deadheading in it on a redeye to PHL.

But those chairs in the background would make a wonderful addition to the PHL crewroom.

 

[Coach Cabin]

It is pretty ironic and if this were to happen, it would not surprise me at all if Baldanza came back to US. Stranger things have happened.

....and remember that Spirit is controlled by Indigo Partners, whose chairman is Bill Franke. Franke is the former Chairman of America West Airlines and mentor to Doug Parker.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'd really like to see TPG ran out of this industry forever. That's where that idiot "just call me Dave" came from.

Dave Siegel? He came from CO (President of CO Express when he left) with a short stint at Avis between that and US. Prior to CO, he worked in various positions at NW.

As for struck work, I think it ironic - "I won't do it" but welcome passengers from the struck airline on board when they use their Spirit ticket for transportation on other airlines.

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Dave Siegel? He came from CO (President of CO Express when he left) with a short stint at Avis between that and US. Prior to CO, he worked in various positions at NW.

As for struck work, I think it ironic - "I won't do it" but welcome passengers from the struck airline on board when they use their Spirit ticket for transportation on other airlines.

Jim

If I'm not mistaken, TPG controlled CO and CO express at the time. Siegel was a cohort of Mr. Bonderman, the guy from TPG. The company he went to after here was Gate Gourmet, also a TPG company. He caused an international incident when he tried to fire striking workers during his stint there.

Why take it out on the Pax? They just want to get home. I'm not saying a little "goodwill" isn't a good thing, but damaging their franchise while their pilots work to inprove the industry is bad form. If they liquidate, that changes the formula a lot, but not if they simply go chapter 11.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If I'm not mistaken, TPG controlled CO and CO express at the time. Siegel was a cohort of Mr. Bonderman, the guy from TPG. The company he went to after here was Gate Gourmet, also a TPG company.

Correct as far as I know about CO. I don't think Avis was ever involved with TPG. But working for a company which TPG owns a chunk of (stock) is not the same as working at TPG. To the best of my knowledge Siegel never worked at TPG so didn't come from there.

Why take it out on the Pax? They just want to get home. I'm not saying a little "goodwill" isn't a good thing, but damaging their franchise while their pilots work to inprove the industry is bad form.

Isn't that basically what the Spirit pilots are saying - "taking care of our passengers" is not struck work. Yet, if 1 or 2% of those passengers decide to take US ABC-CLT-(Caribbean) next trip after riding US during a Spirit strike how is that not "damaging their franchise"? Just ironic to be so dead set against doing struck work, even against the wishes of the striking pilots, yet happily carry those passengers so one's own company can get more revenue at the expense of the struck franchise - revenue that could be used to get more in contract negotiations with one's own company.

If you're serious about not doing struck work, refuse to carry anyone using a Spirit ticket - isn't that the work of the striking pilots?

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Correct as far as I know about CO. I don't think Avis was ever involved with TPG. But working for a company which TPG owns a chunk of (stock) is not the same as working at TPG. To the best of my knowledge Siegel never worked at TPG so didn't come from there.

I disagree. He worked for TPG at CO express, then Gate Gourmet. I also think that when Mr Wolf selected him as the CEO of U, he was looking to get financial backing from TPG. It just didn't work. Maybe because 9/11 messed the airlines up. Now, he's at XOJet, another TPG enterprise. Siegel's ties to TPG go back a long way, and are continuing.

Isn't that basically what the Spirit pilots are saying - "taking care of our passengers" is not struck work. Yet, if 1 or 2% of those passengers decide to take US ABC-CLT-(Caribbean) next trip after riding US during a Spirit strike how is that not "damaging their franchise"? Just ironic to be so dead set against doing struck work, even against the wishes of the striking pilots, yet happily carry those passengers so one's own company can get more revenue at the expense of the struck franchise - revenue that could be used to get more in contract negotiations with one's own company.

If you're serious about not doing struck work, refuse to carry anyone using a Spirit ticket - isn't that the work of the striking pilots?

Jim

Nope. It's one thing to move a day or two of passengers to help folks get where they're going. It's totally something else to set up a route network to steal their business on an ongoing basis.

Some unionist YOU are. Now we see why you think it's okay for guys with 17 years less time on the property to steal jobs.

Actually, I found an article explaining why TPG might have put Siegel at U:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,338630,00.html

Interesting read. I didn't realize (maybe I did at the time, I don't know) how much of a share of U TPG had purchased during bk#1. I think they send Mr. Siegel in because he's a psychopath (someone with no conscience) to break unions and contracts.