US Pilots Labor Discussion 6/10- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvthe9]

I remember some of the knowledgeable guests asking "when is the damages trial?" Answer, NEVERMORE..............

 

[luvthe9]

Really waiting for the damage argument. Let's see. Every other group in the airline went DOH, and no problems. No lawsuits.Merged. Then the west pilot group comes out, and wants to jump at the far end, 17 yrs. Joe Monda. I can't wait to see the expressions on the faces when it is revealed this is "damage."I would say you better hope Joe Monda doesn't come to testify, because it will be readily apparant the one getting damaged is HIM. Good luck! In this economy, you are happy to have kept your job. And the argument that you use about the East going out of business? Old news. Very old. Not relevant anymore. You have the LAS closing to explain now. Are the Westwives still on board? Remember some of the kids DO want to go to ASU.

 

[Barrister]

Ah, therein lies the 360 million dollar question. Do "the AIRLINE PILOTS in the service of AMERICA WEST" still have tripartite contract seperation from usapa? i.e. are the West pilots still a legally seperate class with rights guaranteed by the TA. We certainly had class status in the Addington trial. I would argue, yes we are, and that since we no longer have a seperate means to ratify change to the agreement, you all are stuck with it in its current and original form. That being above all else, seniority integration via ALPA merger policy.

WHAT ADDINGTOM TRIAL?????????????
.......PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO SOME HOMEWORK.
.....IN THE EYES OF THE LAW THAT TRIAL NEVER HAPPENED!!!
Won't be cited by any court anythere ....all you can do is use the
depositions that have already been taken....and only parts that are
deemed relevant to the next trial

Dude wake up...you are embarrasing yourself!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[luvthe9]

WHAT ADDINGTOM TRIAL?????????????
.......PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO SOME HOMEWORK.
.....IN THE EYES OF THE LAW THAT TRIAL NEVER HAPPENED!!!
Won't be cited by any court anythere ....all you can do is use the
depositions that have already been taken....and only parts that are
deemed relevant to the next trial

Dude wake up...you are embarrasing yourself!!

NICDOA
NPJB

The Addington Trial. The one where Wake had to sign his own demise. I just don't get how you can cite Addington, when in the eyes of the court, it means ZIP!

 

[cleardirect]

If the West pilots were ever to face Bybee and Wake in any other venue, other that one in which the opportunity was there for them to be used to crush a union- they would feel otherwise. Both are embarrassing in their lack of knowledge of union and RLA issues. Read about Bybee and the torture memos. Another desert nut job.

You guys can not be this dense. Filing a DFR is not anti-union. DFR is the union failing to represent the member fairly. Filing a DFR suit is the member protecting themselves from the union not anti-union

Do you consider the MDA guys as anti union? They are suing a union for DFR. US Air pilot have filed three DFR suits should we consider you guys anti union?

It simply amazes me that you guys still feel the need to disparage educated well respected judges. The ninth did not address the merits of the case. They had nothing disparaging to say about judge Wake. The only thing that the court decided was that two judges decided that this case was not ready yet. But with a ratified contract it will be ready and Judge Wake or any judge that hears this case will come to the same conclusion again. That usapa did not represent west pilots fairly.

Do you also consider Robert Siegel to be uninformed about the RLA? He raised no objections during his exchange with Judge Wake.

You guys need to remember that the DFR trial was about what usapa did not about what the Nicolau decided. The time to question the Nicolau was 2007. Six months from May 2007 was the time to bring your issue. You know that statute of limitation thing.

 

[cleardirect]

Really waiting for the damage argument. Let's see. Every other group in the airline went DOH, and no problems. No lawsuits.Merged. Then the west pilot group comes out, and wants to jump at the far end, 17 yrs. Joe Monda. I can't wait to see the expressions on the faces when it is revealed this is "damage."I would say you better hope Joe Monda doesn't come to testify, because it will be readily apparant the one getting damaged is HIM. Good luck! In this economy, you are happy to have kept your job. And the argument that you use about the East going out of business? Old news. Very old. Not relevant anymore. You have the LAS closing to explain now. Are the Westwives still on board? Remember some of the kids DO want to go to ASU.

Take it up with Nicolau. He is the one that placed Monda where he is on the list. The west did not build the list an arbitrator did.

usapa can not say the same thing. Maybe you missed it. Dean Collelo did testify in front of Nicolau. The guy junior to Monda and on furlough. It had no effect on Nicolau.

Once again a jury or judge will not hear that either. Remember the DFR will be about how usapa harmed the west not about how Nicolau slotted everyone.

The only thing that the jury is going to know about the Nioclau is it was agreed to by the east and west pilots. That anything that usapa comes up with will be compared to the Nicolau and anything that is less than the Nicolau for the west is a DFR.

 

[Barrister]

You guys can not be this dense. Filing a DFR is not anti-union. DFR is the union failing to represent the member fairly. Filing a DFR suit is the member protecting themselves from the union not anti-union

Do you consider the MDA guys as anti union? They are suing a union for DFR. US Air pilot have filed three DFR suits should we consider you guys anti union?

It simply amazes me that you guys still feel the need to disparage educated well respected judges. The ninth did not address the merits of the case. They had nothing disparaging to say about judge Wake. The only thing that the court decided was that two judges decided that this case was not ready yet. But with a ratified contract it will be ready and Judge Wake or any judge that hears this case will come to the same conclusion again. That usapa did not represent west pilots fairly.

Do you also consider Robert Siegel to be uninformed about the RLA? He raised no objections during his exchange with Judge Wake.

You guys need to remember that

Yea, that's like the first base ump thought it was a ball but the
homeplate umpire and the 3rd base ump up thought it was a strike....
GUESS WHAT IT IS A STRIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

Yea, that's like the first base ump thought it was a ball but the
homeplate umpire and the 3rd base ump up thought it was a strike....
GUESS WHAT IT IS A STRIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

So I guess appeal courts never get it wrong. Oh wait the ninth is overturned by SCOTUS 94% of the time. That is why they have en banc panels. That is why there is instant reply.

 

[nic4us]

WHAT ADDINGTOM TRIAL?????????????
.......PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO SOME HOMEWORK.
.....IN THE EYES OF THE LAW THAT TRIAL NEVER HAPPENED!!!
Won't be cited by any court anythere ....all you can do is use the
depositions that have already been taken....and only parts that are
deemed relevant to the next trial

Dude wake up...you are embarrasing yourself!!

NICDOA
NPJB

Did the 9th happen? Can we quote Tashima in the future?

"We apply the general priciples underlying the ripeness doctrine and take guidance from our decisions regarding the related issue of when a DFR claim accrues for statute of limitations purposes".

We want to quote that for sure. Did it happen? Can we quote it?

Oh, and when you are on the stand, you can explain how you got to the 9th in the first place.

Juries love to hear that liberal appellate judges think they are a waste of time and overturn their verdicts.

 

[nic4us]

You will be paid as much as you were in the Wake damages trial. How much was that? How many times did we hear that threat?

First, lets just wait and see how the company weighs in on the issue. But if they decide to collude with usapa, then..

Not trying to make a threat here, but the next "unquestionably ripe" trial will not be bifurcated.

We will take that in one lump sum, and if you want to appeal the next one, fine, put up the bond, and you will be free to do so.

 

[nic4us]

You bring up 2 out of far 4 to infer something that is meaningless and make some positive point for your side. Only 2 judges counted. I bet GW or Al Gore could tell you exactly that. They personally went through numerous courts but the majority of the one at the top is the only one that matters.

Absent and En Banc hearing and a reversal, or the SCOTUS hearing your case and reversing, it looks like the opinion ofTashima and Graber is the only ones that matter.

While they didn't address USAPA's other 4 complaint's because of the lack of jurisdiction, they did iterate quite clearly some of the legal standards and arguments in relation to DFR, clearly to USAPA's benefit. Do you wonder why or how Wake would have fared in regards to the other complaints based on his understanding of ripeness, or good faith obligations of a union pursuant to DFR?

You articulate your arguement very well, like someone who likes to talk alot because he "is paid by the billable hour".

I am painfully aware that "only 2 judges counted", and that the opinion of the majority is all that matters.

Oh, by the way, Tashima did not call the Nic an internal union "proposal". He called it the "product" of internal rules and processes. To me "product" seems to imply a sense of something already completed. He made no judgement as to whether or not usapa was bound by it in future contract negotiations, or bound to it contractually by the TA. All he said was, usapa is at least as free as ALPA was to abandon it. Even under the prospect of never getting a contract, ALPA was not free to abandon the Nic, they were contractually obligated to defend it, and so is usapa.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You articulate your arguement very well, like someone who likes to talk alot because he "is paid by the billable hour".

I guess that's how "longshoremen" are paid...after all, they're experts on the airline industry too...

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

MV, YOU KNOW I CAN'T POST IT BECAUSE I AM NOT THE AUTHOR BUT IF YOU GIVE US YOUR EMAIL, WE WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ENLIGHTEN THOSE MORE ENLIGHTEN THAN OURSELVES! MM! RESERVE MUST BE TOUGH!

THINK back july 24, 2007 his statement about proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA's merger policy that alpa will adopt as a BARGAINING POSITION ETC ETC ETC, the COMPANY is not required to accept MM!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Congratulations to the spirit pilots for getting a contract.

The anti-labor forces of AOL and their attorneys continue to keep us from getting a contract and stripping the pilots of their rightful places to vote. This issue will continue to foment the rift between the East and West pilots for sometime to come.

Unity is non-existent here.

I just return to the forum occasionally to remind the East pilots here that to waste your breath with West pilots is great sport but otherwise simply reminds us that the ultimate weapon of strike is not availible to us. THEY ARE AGAINST US!!

They're angry and they HATE you!

So, Good luck and enjoy the ride!!

Back to lurking.

 

[luvthe9]

I guess that's how "longshoremen" are paid...after all, they're experts on the airline industry too...

Jim

This has nothing to do with flying the jet, or revenue miles. Or Wake turbulence. This is all about the understanding of the RLA, bargaining agents, and unions. Something most posters on this board are NOT well versed in. ROACLT has a better grasp of this than any poster on this board, bar none.