US Pilots Labor Discussion 10/13-- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Richard]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Apparently there are some of you who do not understand the concept behind some of the rules of this board. We are going to offer a refresher, and a final warning. We are tired of the childish remarks, personal attacks and insults, and posters questioning other posters' standings or reasons for their interest in this dispute....so let's be clear:

1. ANYONE can post on this board and this thread as long as they observe the rules. That means ANYONE....not just east or west pilots or employees of US Airways. Who another poster is and who he works for, and why he posts here is none of anyone's business except that individual poster.

2. Observing the rules means you may discuss the ISSUES, but you may not discuss, comment on, or otherwise insult or attack individual posters. It is fine if you disagree with an opposing point of view but calling the person who posts that opposing view a name or otherwise insulting them will NOT be tolerated.

3. Making false reports to moderators of posts which do NOT violate the rules is a violation unto itself.

While the overwhelming majority of you have found yourselves able to stay on topic and NOT stray to insult individual posters, those who insist on doing so are bringing the rest of this discussion down to a childish level which is both an insult to those who post here AND to your profession. I remind you that NOTHING anyone says here will have ANY effect on the outcome of this dispute, so keep it civil and within the rules.

The next personal attack or insult will get the poster a mandatory 14 day suspension.....we have had enough.

Thank you.

 

[Ames]

Okay! We get it! You want the Nic. Have you considered taking the time to look at the C&R's. If you will do that, you may not embrace the nic so tightly.

Yes, I have read the C&R's, as I believe most west pilots have. We read everything. Having done so I can honestly state that reading your precious C&R's is a very good motivation for having to pry the Nic from our cold, dead hands.....

Final and binding arbitration. Get used to it. You can put your DOH and C&R's where the sun don't shine.

 

[Ames]

Once the court gives them a pass on liability for dropping their lip-service support of Nic, they will run that list through the shredder so fast it will make your eyes spin.

The company officially accepted the Nic via letter to all pilots. They further stated in open court their acceptance of the Nic. That's a bit more than lip service. Quite doubtful the court will give them a pass on the Nic. That would usurp the arbitration process which is a crucial cog in the legal system.

So, what will you do on the day you are finally told you will have to live with a Nicolau seniority list?

 

[mikey60]

I hope you get it. Enjoy paying your assessment. Especially on LOA93 pay.

Over 40% of the west did. Maybe the half dozen west posters on this forum are in the real minority, almost 0%. GO USAPA!!!

 

[mikey60]

Are you grateful enough to quit trying to steal their jobs?

The East will be happy when the bottom East pilot is one number senior to the most senior west pilot.

 

[mikey60]

The company officially accepted the Nic via letter to all pilots. They further stated in open court their acceptance of the Nic. That's a bit more than lip service. Quite doubtful the court will give them a pass on the Nic. That would usurp the arbitration process which is a crucial cog in the legal system.

So, what will you do on the day you are finally told you will have to live with a Nicolau seniority list?

We don't have to worry about it. It's never going to come.......remember and say it over and over, GO USAPA!!!!

 

[Barrister]

The company officially accepted the Nic via letter to all pilots. They further stated in open court their acceptance of the Nic. That's a bit more than lip service. Quite doubtful the court will give them a pass on the Nic. That would usurp the arbitration process which is a crucial cog in the legal system.

So, what will you do on the day you are finally told you will have to live with a Nicolau seniority list?

Vote NO on any contract that contains it....any more hard questions for today??

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[flyinawa]

Vote NO on any contract that contains it....any more hard questions for today??

NICDOA
NPJB

Then spend the rest of your career marching in picket circles and blaming the company for your LOA 93 wages...any more hard questions for today???

 

[Metroyet]

Vote NO on any contract that contains it....any more hard questions for today??

NICDOA
NPJB

Yeah, are you still prohibited from using Food Stamps for "prepared" foods? Do you think Lee $e$ham has any good recipes for Big Lots frozen pizza?

 

[JoeFL77]

The beauty of the C/Rs are you get what you brought to the dance.

In various crew news it has been stated that the East is flying 4 percent of what could be considered West flying, while the West is flying 24 percent of what could be considered East flying.

So the West has netted 20 percent of what should be flown by East pilots.

So who should be upset?

JoeFL77

 

[BoeingBoy]

So the West has netted 20 percent of what should be flown by East pilots.

And how much of the flying that could be considered neither East nor West is the East doing? Does about 100% come to mind?

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

... To paraphrase the majority's comment about Nic - that USAPA may produce a solution to the seniority that doesn't do the harm that the west fears - I don't think that a realistic hope on the majority's part. ..

The majority expressed no hope in that regard. They just acknowledged that USAPA was free to continue negotiations with the company, without outside parties interfering, in order to reach an outcome, for which they may then be judged.


The published 9th Opinion... was just an opinion. We all have opinions, I guess. Some get published.

Your opinion isn't so far out there. It is certainly possible that the end result of negotiations between the company and USAPA could cause/contribute to some harm that the West fears (and it might even contribute to a result that constitutes a failure of DFR under the SCOTUS standard).... but that outcome is not certain, even if some think it appears likely. Who knows what will happen tomorrow?

Its important to note the contrasting, underlying premises that resulted in the divergent Opinion and Dissent as published by the 9th.

The Opinion premise is that the Union's right to negotiate with the company takes preeminence over any internal union process and that the union's performance of its duty can't be judged until the outcome is complete. Once a contract is ratified the court will be happy to review any an all processes along the way (including ALPA's pinky promise, self-binding imposition upon itself) to see if there was a breech of DFR. Of course, the outcome will be measured against the SCOTUS standard.

The Dissent on the other hand held that the union's self-binding pinky promise to itself during an internal union process takes preeminence over the union's right to negotiate with the company, and that the outcome is irrelevant because the pinky promise is the issue and it is already being breeched.


Summary:

Opinion---Unions have the right to negotiate with the company, without interference, all the way to the conclusion in order that they may reach an outcome, upon which they then may be judged. (After all, any interference by outside parties during the negotiations would contribute to a union's defense of why they were unable to perform their DFR to reach an equitable outcome.)

Dissent---Unions must be held to task for appearing to break interim, pinky promise processes regardless of how much that interferes, impedes, or irreparably alters the union's ability to work toward an outcome of ongoing negotiations with the company, even if the union promises they are doing their darndest to negotiate with the company to effect a solution that is in the best interest of all pilots.

Thems the premises... as I see them .

 

[nic4us]

Thems the premises... as I see them .

Well, go back and read again. Eventually you will get the part about "pinky promises" being final and binding.

 

[Ames]

The East will be happy when the bottom East pilot is one number senior to the most senior west pilot.

This statement pretty much sums it up.

 

[Ames]

We don't have to worry about it. It's never going to come.......remember and say it over and over, GO USAPA!!!!

The day will come. Sooner than you think. Mark my words.