US Pilots Labor Discussion 10/13-- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Phoenix]

"The Nic does not have to be in it. It was said in the 9th ruling."

I read the ruling and didn't see that tidbit. ..

A careful reading of the Opinion and the Dissent is helpful.

From the Opinion:
"Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the parties [USAPA and USAirways] complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ultimately is..."

The Opinion recognized that the dispute remains an internal union dispute and chose not to intervene in the negotiations between USAPA and USAirways. The right and responsibility of the CBA to freely negotiate is not to be interfered, and is not completed.

From the Dissent:
The outcome of negotiations is irrelevant.

Brilliant. The Dissent effectively decided the Nic snapshot during an internal union process must necessarily be the outcome of the negotiations process between the Union and the Company, effectively declaring negotiations between the Union and the Company to have already ceased.

 

[BoeingBoy]

From the Dissent:
The outcome of negotiations is irrelevant.

Brilliant. The Dissent effectively decided the Nic snapshot during an internal union process must necessarily be the outcome of the negotiations process between the Union and the Company, effectively declaring negotiations between the Union and the Company to have already ceased.[/size][/font]

Ahhh, once again the East picks out a few words and then assigns their choice of meaning to them.

The dissent says that "USAPA concedes that it will never bargain for implementation of the Nicolau Award. It is constitutionally hostile to doing so." So, because of USAPA's stated intentions to not accept the Nic under any circumstance, the dissent concludes that the case is "fit for decision" based on it's merits instead of putting that off as the majority did by ruling only on ripeness. Just as the company said in it request for declaratory judgement, the dissent says that not having a final resolution to the question of DFR impairs the ability to reach a negotiated contract that is ratified and capable of being implemented because as soon as a non-Nic contract is ratified the DFR suit will be filed again and an injunction sought to prevent implementation so that the West isn't harmed while the case is being decided. To paraphrase the majority's comment about Nic - that USAPA may produce a solution to the seniority that doesn't do the harm that the west fears - I don't think that a realistic hope on the majority's part. Nearly all the East posters claim that a contract with the protections of Nic, even if the Nic itself is not used, won't be ratified so the 9th's "possibility" of a non-Nic solution that doesn't result in another DFR trial is improbable at best and probably impossible. Which is basically what the dissent said.

Jim

 

[mikey60]

The East would like to thank all of the West pilots who voted for continueing the Pension Investigation.






GO USAPA.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Come on 2500 plus posts and counting....PPPPPLLLLLLEEEEEEAAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEE!

Is that you Marty Harper?

And more evidence of applying any desired interpretation to a tidbit of data. Did you happen to notice how many of those 2500+ posts were in this forum, as opposed to other forums here? Also, since you're relatively new you probably don't realize how many of the posts in this forum predated the HP/US merger announcement, never mind how many were after the Nic Award came out. But, hey - why should some facts get in your way?

Jim

 

[767jetz]

And more evidence of applying any desired interpretation to a tidbit of data. Did you happen to notice how many of those 2500+ posts were in this forum, as opposed to other forums here? Also, since you're relatively new you probably don't realize how many of the posts in this forum predated the HP/US merger announcement, never mind how many were after the Nic Award came out. But, hey - why should some facts get in your way?

Jim

Thanks Jim. Interesting how some people resort to personal attacks when they don't like the message. And they can't even get the facts correct. Perhaps being "new" here they are not yet familiar with the board rules and the cornfield.

 

[Freebird]

The East would like to thank all of the West pilots who voted for continueing the Pension Investigation.




GO USAPA.

I hope you get it. Enjoy paying your assessment. Especially on LOA93 pay.

 

[BLT]

just read the latest Leonidas update. Telling. The part about pandering to Wake pretty much gives an idea why your thrust is really misguided and totally ineffective. You really need to meet your counsel face to face. The fact so much weight is given to Wake, and the bowing and scraping tells all. Reminds one of the Imperial Japanese Army at the feet of the Emperor. Nobody has the courage to tell him they blew it by attacking the USA. Wake means nothing, except to Leonidas and the donation hotline. Clean Slate pretty much summed it up. Uttered by his eminence. Disregarded by the Imperial forces. How can a supposed highly educated and highly functioning group continue to reference a Federal Judge who was remanded by a Federal Appeals Court in a specific case where he was out of order and EMBARRASSED for lack of knowledge in a case that was remanded as if it still has merit going forward? Beats me! All we can say is, KEEP THE DONATIONS COMING! Seriously. Do you understand the simple fact Jacobs has taken you on a clean legal sweep of "damages" when none have happened? One million plus dollars later, and everybody is urged to meet the "team" at the hotel for more inspiration. Now all hope is lain at the alter of Silver. One problem, and it is, rather large. You are continuing to argue the same case,as the company, in the same method, to a Federal Judge, who is VERY aware of what happened to her colleague not all that long ago. And if there are similar responses to the previous mentioned Federal Judge as before, there is waiting, again, the same Federal Court of Appeals as before. All one can say is, HMMMMMMMMM. No truer word of advice could be given than by Baptiste&Wilder. Same method, same outcome coming.

Wake means nothing, except to Leonidas and the donation hotline. Clean Slate pretty much summed it up. Uttered by his eminence. Disregarded by the Imperial forces. How can a supposed highly educated and highly functioning group continue to reference a Federal Judge who was remanded by a Federal Appeals Court in a specific case where he was out of order and EMBARRASSED for lack of knowledge in a case that was remanded as if it still has merit going forward?

Interesting that the company quotes the addington case and the results in judge wakes courtroom several times in their filings. It seems that their lawyers must also be huge bafoons for not knowing that the old embarassing Wake case was remanded and is now completely meaningless. What is your take on this? I would really be interested to hear your opinion. Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge with the rest of us.

 

[cleardirect]

I'll give you 3:8 odds of THAT ever happening.

That is pretty good odds for a seniority list that many on here say is dead and gone. Perhaps the Ninth did not kill the Nicolau list as the east think they did.

 

[cleardirect]

Angry US Airways Pilots Coming to DCA

Well it is official. An official press release from usapa. The angry FO club has turned into the angry east club. Now all of you are mad. But why. The Nicolau is dead I thought. You all keep telling us that the ninth killed it.

The company wants to give you DOH, according to the east but where is it. Why so angry? usapa is the best union ever conceived according to east pilots. Why so angry?

The east pilots keep telling us that you are willing to work under LOA 93 for the rest of your careers if it means the Nicolau. Why so angry? That is what you have right now.

What kind of strategy does a so called professional union have to tell attach a negative emotional response to pilots and tell the world. What next that east pilots are afraid of heights? Afraid to fly? Oh that's right you already did that and called it "safety"

Everyday another embarrassment from this association.

 

[Metroyet]

The East would like to thank all of the West pilots who voted for continueing the Pension Investigation.






GO USAPA.

I'm sure the West was only too happy to flush another after-tax-grand of East only money down the toilet.

 

[traderjake]

The East would like to thank all of the West pilots who voted for continueing the Pension Investigation.

Are you grateful enough to quit trying to steal their jobs?

 

[BLT]

I was told that the pension investigation will not result in any money being returned to the east pilots. That it is only an investigation. Is that true?

Also heard that Cleary exhibited some strange behavior at the labor meeting with Parker. Anyone have any details on that?

 

[nycbusdriver]

It's not complex if there's another existing union that you would like to represent you.

Well, yes and no. The existing other union that you would like must be willing and contractually able to represent you. At one time, the US Airways (east) pilots approached the Teamsters and asked them to spearhead a campaign to replace ALPA. The Teamsters would have done it, except that they had an agreement with ALPA to never poach the other's labor groups. So they declined, and there was really no other appropriate union to take on the task.

I'm sure the West was only too happy to flush another after-tax-grand of East only money down the toilet.

The majority of our PHX "brothers and sisters" were not at all in favor of letting us "flush" our money. We thank them for their concern, and promise to repay the favor at every opportunity.

 

[Metroyet]

I was told that the pension investigation will not result in any money being returned to the east pilots. That it is only an investigation. Is that true?

Also heard that Cleary exhibited some strange behavior at the labor meeting with Parker. Anyone have any details on that?

At least El Presidente bothered to actually show up and feign an interest in representing those that pay his inflated salary. Of course he contributed NOTHING to the meeting but its a start.

 

[supercruiser]

Just a teenie tiny question. I know that the West MEC gave the company a section 6 notice and that after the representational election USAPA squashed that, but has USAPA given the company a section 6 notice?

Jim

USAPA has been in section 6 negotiations since Jan 10 (the first month legally available). USAPA filed for section 6 mediation with the NMB Jan10; it was approved, and they have been in section 6 mediated negotiations sinced then. Your sarcastic teenie tiny remarks hurt whatever credibility you think you have.