US Pilots Labor Discussion 10/13-- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[JetguyCLT]

This question is for a East USAPA pilot. Some of us in the Customer Service group are tired of the CWA and how they don't listen to us. Much like you guy and gals were with ALPA. My question is, how do we get rid of them like you guys did and possibly form our own union? The CWA/Teamsters thing we have going on is worthless. Any help any of you guys/gals can provide would be so helpful! Thanks!

Moderator, please don't delete this. I realize this is not on the topic of Pilot Labor but I am just looking for some information and didn't know where else to post this. Sorry in advance.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Don't take my word for it - read the latest PHX update.

8 to 3.

How many times must I write it? It has to be a vote of the entire membership. Nothing else will convince us. So go ahead and present a CBA with the Nicolau list and we'll all find out together. What are you afraid of?

 

[BoeingBoy]

This question is for a East USAPA pilot.

It's not complex if there's another existing union that you would like to represent you. It's a little harder if you want to form your own union.

There has to be a showing that a majority of the group (class/craft) wants different representation, accomplished by submitting signed authorization cards to the NMB along with a request for a representational investigation. If you want your own in-house union, the entity has to be formed, officers selected, and funded at least through the election.

If the investigation finds that a valid number of authorization cards were submitted and the new union meets the requirements to represent a group, the NMB will schedule the election. To win the election, the new union must receive 50%+1 of the votes cast.

Jim

 

[Freighterguynow]

So go ahead and present a CBA with the Nicolau list and we'll all find out together.

I'll give you 3:8 odds of THAT ever happening.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I'll give you 3:8 odds of THAT ever happening.

Don't care. Just prove it. If you dare...

 

[Freighterguynow]

Speaking of not caring .....

 

[CallawayGolf]

I'll give you 3:8 odds of THAT ever happening.

And just to see how objective and accurate you can be with your odds making -

What odds do you give USAPA of putting any contract out for a vote in the next 12, 24, 36, 48 or 60 months?

What odds do give of the company accepting a DOH seniority "proposal"?

What odds do you give USAPA of surviving DFR II if/when a JCBA is ratified?

We can save your prognostications and check back when any of the above actually occurrs.

 

[crazystnic]

Um, not quite. I know many east supporters like to think so, but in order to put a TA out for a vote, you first need to negotiate a contract. That has not happened because USAPA is stalling and stuck on avoiding binding arbitration at all cost. And part of that process is poling the pilot population to see what areas of the contract are important, to what degree, etc. This is all information USAPA doesn't want because it might just show a lack of support for their current direction.


Sorry but there was a poll. I participated in.

and from the NAC update today

Pilots asked several questions about the concept of industry standard as a bargaining proposal. The general sense is that if we only ask for industry standard we will end up with something less. DiOrio, Davis and Petersen each provided explanation on our position and said that there are different styles of negotiation in this regard.[b Our strategy concerning industry standard was supported by the NAC survey results[/b, and Petersen is confident we are taking the right approach for our situation.

 

[767jetz]

Our strategy concerning industry standard was supported by the NAC survey results

Great! Was Phoenix surveyed? Who did the Survey? Was it done by a third party? Or by selected USAPA individuals who only formulated questions in a way that would skew the results the way they want? Was it by phone, internet, or mail? Did they ask how much, if any, concessions people would be willing to make in order to get DOH over the Nic? Was Nic even addressed? What exactly was surveyed? How many were surveyed? Where are the official results? Are they published and made available to all US pilots? Or do we just take the NAC's word of their unbiased interpretation of the results?

 

[BLT]

There is not going to be a 51% vote on a Nic contract because you are going to be re-educated on NMB and RLA procedure AGAIN.The Nic does not have to be in it. It was said in the 9th ruling. How many times does it take for Wake to get slammed, the 9th to clarify, and whatever until you guys start getting it? New bargaining agent. To use the former is to perpetuate it. No court in this land, including Silvers', is going to plow new ground on this. Wake was the clear example of how it goes down. Put the Nic in it and you are going to be embarrassed by the 9th, and overturned by same. This gets funnier by the minute. Anyone who knows anything about RLA law is just shaking their heads about what you guys continue to believe. The minute Silver goes over the line and tries to intrude into an internal union issue, the 9th will take her down at the kneecaps.

"The Nic does not have to be in it. It was said in the 9th ruling."

I read the ruling and didn't see that tidbit. I saw a lot to do with ripeness, but nothing dealing with whether or not the nic must be included or not. I have to wonder what reason the company would have to file for declaratory judgment asking for clarification on the issue of the nic vs. doh.

"Put the Nic in it and you are going to be embarrassed by the 9th, and overturned by same."

Are you suggesting that the nic is now illegal to use? Please explain, this is very interesting.

Could you please quote the RLA law which supports your arguments.

"The minute Silver goes over the line and tries to intrude into an internal union issue, the 9th will take her down at the kneecaps."

So unions are immune from any legal meddling by federal judges? Please explain this as well.

Your post is very interesting and I would like to learn more from you. Thanks.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Great! Was Phoenix surveyed? Who did the Survey? Was it done by a third party? Or by selected USAPA individuals who only formulated questions in a way that would skew the results the way they want? Was it by phone, internet, or mail? Did they ask how much, if any, concessions people would be willing to make in order to get DOH over the Nic? Was Nic even addressed? What exactly was surveyed? How many were surveyed? Where are the official results? Are they published and made available to all US pilots? Or do we just take the NAC's word of their unbiased interpretation of the results?

INSULT/PERSONAL ATTACK REMOVED BY MODERATOR. It would be against sound negotiating practice to reveal to your adversary (company) what items are important to you as a group. Since you are not a member of this group there is no need to reveal anything the Cornell Survey concluded.

 

[CallawayGolf]

It would be against sound negotiating practice to reveal to your adversary (company) what items are important to you as a group. Since you are not a member of this group there is no need to reveal anything the Cornell Survey concluded.

Or to reveal information unfavorable to your position as it relates to the sizable group of pilots you are making every attempt to harm via the negotiating process.

 

[luvthe9]

just read the latest Leonidas update. Telling. The part about pandering to Wake pretty much gives an idea why your thrust is really misguided and totally ineffective. You really need to meet your counsel face to face. The fact so much weight is given to Wake, and the bowing and scraping tells all. Reminds one of the Imperial Japanese Army at the feet of the Emperor. Nobody has the courage to tell him they blew it by attacking the USA. Wake means nothing, except to Leonidas and the donation hotline. Clean Slate pretty much summed it up. Uttered by his eminence. Disregarded by the Imperial forces. How can a supposed highly educated and highly functioning group continue to reference a Federal Judge who was remanded by a Federal Appeals Court in a specific case where he was out of order and EMBARRASSED for lack of knowledge in a case that was remanded as if it still has merit going forward? Beats me! All we can say is, KEEP THE DONATIONS COMING! Seriously. Do you understand the simple fact Jacobs has taken you on a clean legal sweep of "damages" when none have happened? One million plus dollars later, and everybody is urged to meet the "team" at the hotel for more inspiration. Now all hope is lain at the alter of Silver. One problem, and it is, rather large. You are continuing to argue the same case,as the company, in the same method, to a Federal Judge, who is VERY aware of what happened to her colleague not all that long ago. And if there are similar responses to the previous mentioned Federal Judge as before, there is waiting, again, the same Federal Court of Appeals as before. All one can say is, HMMMMMMMMM. No truer word of advice could be given than by Baptiste&Wilder. Same method, same outcome coming.

 

[Phoenix]

Great! Was Phoenix surveyed? ...

Yes, I received a call.

 

[767jetz]

Since you are not a member of this group there is no need to reveal anything the Cornell Survey concluded.

No one asked to reveal the substance of the survey. Only to answer the question of how legitimate the survey was, and if the results were made available TO THE MEMBERS. Including the west. Or if it even included the west or questions about the the Nic.

As usual, when asked direct and pertinent questions, USAPA supporters are experts at redirecting and avoidance.