US Pilots Labor Discussion 10/13-- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[BajaBabe]

Desperate times

 

[john john]

Somewhat up in the air - the transition agreement says that the duration of a single contract will replace the separate duration periods of the East and West contracts. The West contract has been amendable for several years while I think the East contract became amendable on 12/31/2009 per LOA 93.

Jim

Maybe waiting on the arbitration ruling to start section 6 if it goes USAPA way it could show to be creative

 

[BoeingBoy]

You seem to be sayig they have not..

Not at all. Although I've seen nothing that suggests the USAPA has given the company a section 6 notice (or vice versa), I was asking because I didn't know.

I don't see how it's a big deal either way...

I guess it isn't since it's just the first step in the process that could ultimately end in a cooling off period. Current mediation is per the TA, not section 6 unless the section 6 notice has been exchanged BTW. Mergers are funny animals.

This thing is going to drag out and in my opinion at the end it will end with a cooling off period. They don't want to pay us anythig near what we are worth.... I'll walk tomorrow and we don't need the west to pull this off.

I wouldn't put my "walk tomorrow" shoes on quite yet - there's a long process to go yet.

Sorry Jim.. but Kirby and his little raise and all the BS they spew is done... We are taking it back

Yeah, I've noticed how successful you've been "taking it back" so far. Molasses moves faster on a winter day in Nome...

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

What is the duration of the East contract?

It varies by individual. It's driven by age and the date when said pilot will reach age 65. That's the duration of the East contract...AKA LOA 93...upon retirement.

 

[767jetz]

To be clear, a West pilots SENIORITY, was obtained by working for AWA. Not, where would his AWA DOH place him/her on the east's list. We were not added to the east list, and our respective DOHs are irrelevant.

This a fact completely lost on USAPA and it's supporters. They still behave as if HP pilots were "added" to "their" airline and seniority list. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The old US Airways does not exist anymore. Neither does America West. LCC is the new company and both pilot groups were added to a new list via binding arbitration.

On another note, it is once again peculiarly quiet since USAPA's motion was dismissed. Every time a legal decision goes against them, the USAPA supporters disappear, no doubt awaiting spin instructions from USAPA's propaganda... errrr... communication department.

 

[nic4us]

On another note, it is once again peculiarly quiet since USAPA's motion was dismissed. Every time a legal decision goes against them, the USAPA supporters disappear, no doubt awaiting spin instructions from USAPA's propaganda... errrr... communication department.

usapa has two motions pending. First, to have the Addington class removed from the company's suit, and second a motion to dismiss the company's suit.

The comapany has filed their responses, and it is evident the company understands its obligations to not cooperate with a union that is breaching its DFR.

So if you think it is quiet now, just wait til these usapa motions get ruled upon.

 

[hp_fa]

Better yet will be when $eham or Granath make their first, and inevitable, mistake before Judge Silver.

 

[aquagreen73s]

usapa has two motions pending. First, to have the Addington class removed from the company's suit, and second a motion to dismiss the company's suit.

Don't forget Doc 50 - USAPA's motion to dismiss the West's cross-claim

 

[luvthe9]

Better yet will be when $eham or Granath make their first, and inevitable, mistake before Judge Silver.

If you wish to continue to say Seham makes mistakes, Jacobs has a miserable record of fleecing his army. Over and over. At least Seham wins on a continual basis. Jacobs needs the Desert Judge and his cronies to eek out any victory. When it comes to a real courtroom, he continues to lose, and miserably.He should go back to the knife. Maybe not that either.....

 

[767jetz]

I fly with the guys each and every day...

I've heard this argument many times over the years as justification of one's assumption that their ideas and opinions are shared by a majority of their co-workers. The problem is that by the nature of the way pilot schedules work, who one works with is not a sample diverse enough to gauge the mood of the collective group.

For example, I bid reserve because it works best for my life's situation. As a result, I fly about 80% of my trips with captains also on reserve, in my domicile. Therefore, the majority of the captains I fly with have a seniority within a range of about 100 numbers or so. Also consider that absent PBS, many line holders fly an entire month with the same person. This is very small sampling of the total demographic of the pilot population. I do not regularly have in depth conversations with pilots outside my domicile, in other fleets, and even in the same domicile and seat as me, since I would obviously never fly a trip with another f/o unles it was an international trip with an augmented crew. All these other pilots represent a very diverse group from very senior international captains, to junior A320 f/o's to furloughed pilots.

Of course we all see other pilots in crew lounges and layovers, etc. But again, absent an actual vote or at least a poling by a third party, there is absolutely no way for one person to claim they know what would or would not pass ratification. USAPA came to existence with a small majority. (I do not know the exact margin.) But with all that has transpired, and some who may be unhappy with broken campaign promises, or tired of LOA 93, or closing in on retirement, it is very possible that a vote on a Nic contract or even a new representational vote would pass by 51% or better.

 

[luvthe9]

There is not going to be a 51% vote on a Nic contract because you are going to be re-educated on NMB and RLA procedure AGAIN.The Nic does not have to be in it. It was said in the 9th ruling. How many times does it take for Wake to get slammed, the 9th to clarify, and whatever until you guys start getting it? New bargaining agent. To use the former is to perpetuate it. No court in this land, including Silvers', is going to plow new ground on this. Wake was the clear example of how it goes down. Put the Nic in it and you are going to be embarrassed by the 9th, and overturned by same. This gets funnier by the minute. Anyone who knows anything about RLA law is just shaking their heads about what you guys continue to believe. The minute Silver goes over the line and tries to intrude into an internal union issue, the 9th will take her down at the kneecaps.

 

[Freighterguynow]

One more hole in your theory is the fact that the above statement (stated as fact), is purely speculative opinion with zero evidence to support. If USAPA were sure of this being a fact, then a NIC contract would have already gone out for a vote to put the issue to rest and PROVE unequivocally that a Nic contract can not be ratified. I bet there hasn't even been an independent third party survey of the pilots by the union, to test the mood and support of various ideas and positions.

Why bother with a 3rd party ? All it takes is one pilot at a local council meeting to put forth a resolution directing the BPR to at least send out a TA for a vote. To my knowledge, this has never happened.



So, to recap: in the 2 1/2 years since USAPA was voted in not one East pilot has ever expressed an interest in a contract containing the Nic award.

Polling complete.

 

[luvthe9]

But with all that has transpired, and some who may be unhappy with broken campaign promises, or tired of LOA 93, or closing in on retirement, it is very possible that a vote on a Nic contract or even a new representational vote would pass by 51% or better.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, keep that spin coming we get a kick out of it.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Changing subject:

Does anyone remember off-hand what the strike price for our stock options was set at?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Why bother with a 3rd party ? All it takes is one pilot at a local council meeting to put forth a resolution directing the BPR to at least send out a TA for a vote. To my knowledge, this has never happened.



So, to recap: in the 2 1/2 years since USAPA was voted in not one East pilot has ever expressed an interest in a contract containing the Nic award.

Polling complete.

They are in ALPA-think mode, where an individual pilot was basically powerless to be heard beyond an LEC meeting where any resolution proferred could be (and usually was) quashed by the LEC officers to never again see the light of day.