US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/6- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[cleardirect]

Why should "west" pilots hav MORE representation than East pilots??

Any "pilot" that "joins" an anti-labor union corporate sanctioned website like cactuspilot.com is simply letting the MINORITY take control. I think they call that single party communism. There is not a system that has EVER been run like you describe in the FREE world. As usual and typical west pilots want GREATER representation and RECOGITION for their GREATER view of the airline world. You can return to your DREAM world of utopian rule, and be master of YOUR universe. Oh, by the way, any labor organization YOU describe raises constitutional issues by itself. I won't "polute" my time with your anti-labor site.

I went to the union meeting yesterday. As usual, the west pilots were glum. Having said that, all this banter about the office manager and DC would have been explained if you were there. The constitution and bylaws are VERY specific: the EVP ANSWERS TO THE PRESIDENT.

"The Executive Vice President shall be responsible to execute policy of the Board of Pilot Representatives acting under the jurisdiction of the President."

The president is his boss. This provision of the constituion should NEVER have been an elected position. The EVP is an office manager and should NEVER been held by "high paid" pilots. A vote for a constitutional amendment should be out soon.

So who is the president’s boss?

Now please answer this. USAPA was created from scratch by east pilots. There is no excuse about someone else imposing all of these evils on USAPA in the C&BL. Since the east pilots portray themselves to be smarter than everyone else. How and why did that constitutional change and addition of the EVP office get into your nice clean new document? If it should never have been there how did it happen? Did ALPA force you to put it in?

If any of you West pilots want to make any difference you could participate, but I hope not. I was there to tell them that, as of right now, our pilots are essentially working as at will employees. Of course they agreed.

I am curious what the west reps reaction to your announcement that the pilots are at will employees. Did they agree with you too? Was this a unanimous agreement or were there some dissenters?

I also talked to many of the current and former BPR reps and encouraged them to consider the possibility of forming a separate corporation that protects the FEDERAL STAUTORY RIGHTS under the EEOC of EQUAL TREATMENT FOR EQUAL WORK. That includes the recognition of MY YEARS OF SERVICE in relation to YOUR years of service. That also includes the FACT that I have the same qualifications and responsibilities to act as pilot in command. The "PIC qualified first officers" should be paid the same as the captains....in fact, we need to ELIMINATE those two words from pilots vocabulary...there should be either "PIC qualified" or nothing. Pilots don't deserve the rank of Captain, which is really a management function. Pilots can barely manage a bowel function as it stands now.

With all of your great ideas why are you not president or at least a board member showing the east pilots the right way to do things? If you are right and everyone one else is wrong way is no one following you?

How did the board take your suggestion to changing the entire way airlines are set up and to filing another law suit? Did they take it under advisement or simply vote in your idea on the spot? I would have like to have been there to hear that pitch. But you know an east coast union would have a hard time having a meeting out west where 40% of the pilots live. Maybe someday I can watch the sausage being made.

ALL OTHER employee groups get treated that way, why should PILOTS be different.

But I thought that pilots were different than all other employees? If you want to be treated and get paid like all other employees go be one of them. Ever ask yourself why we don’t get union breaks like all other union employees? Go find out and get back to us. Then ask your EEOC question in the context of why we don’t get scheduled union breaks.

Oh that's right, pilots are special, especially WEST pilots. Let's face it, I don't like to use the "n" word so let me just say that there is only a snowballs chance in hell that the interests of west pilots and East pilots will Never be together. That was evident yesterday.

We will sue US Airways for disparate treatment and disparate impact claims under the EEOC. We can also add AOL as a named party. I like all this lawsuit stuff.

Another law suit cool. Could you remind me, is this a labor union/association created to protect pilots and get a contract or a lawyer enrichment fund and transfer of wealth organization? I am sure that the EEOC will be all over your claims, can’t wait to hear back.

Of course we learned THIS tactic from our West brothers and sisters. They were very receptive. We're preparing for that possibility.

Let look at the replay shall we? First law suit filed by pilots.
East MEC files suit against west MEC.
USAPA files RICO charges against west pilots.
West pilots file and win DFR against union
East pilots file suit against USAPA.
East pilots file law suit against PBGC

Now east pilots planning on filing suit against the company for EEOC violation.
By my count it is 5 out of 6 were filed by the east. Would you like to reconsider your statement about where you learned about the legal system?
If you are going to make stuff up at least try and make it believable.

Thank you WEST pilots for showing us the way.If and when our "labor union" ever disappears is when that issue becomes ripe. Not while labor representation exists on the property, however.

Enjoy your festering propaganda over at cactuspilot.com. I'll scab before I would join the likes of THAT organization.

Why the quotes around labor union? Is usapa not turning out to be the panacea that you thought? Have you ever considered the possibility that it is not the structure or the organization but the people running it? Organizations are not corrupt people are. The east pilots have complained about their union and blamed a structure, who are you going to blame if you don't believe that usapa is not a labor union now? The west? We don't have the vote to stop or start anything. So this is all east pilot built and run.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

I can't wait for a disparate impact filing with EEOC!


EEOC won't do squat, they have too many real cases and thousands of spite cases filed every day.

This is not a road you all want to travel, trust me, the EEOC will not be your friend on this one.

 

[Flippin43]

Why should "west" pilots hav MORE representation than East pilots??

Any "pilot" that "joins" an anti-labor union corporate sanctioned website like cactuspilot.com is simply letting the MINORITY take control. I think they call that single party communism. There is not a system that has EVER been run like you describe in the FREE world. As usual and typical west pilots want GREATER representation and RECOGITION for their GREATER view of the airline world. You can return to your DREAM world of utopian rule, and be master of YOUR universe. Oh, by the way, any labor organization YOU describe raises constitutional issues by itself. I won't "polute" my time with your anti-labor site.

I went to the union meeting yesterday. As usual, the west pilots were glum. Having said that, all this banter about the office manager and DC would have been explained if you were there. The constitution and bylaws are VERY specific: the EVP ANSWERS TO THE PRESIDENT.

"The Executive Vice President shall be responsible to execute policy of the Board of Pilot Representatives acting under the jurisdiction of the President."

The president is his boss. This provision of the constituion should NEVER have been an elected position. The EVP is an office manager and should NEVER been held by "high paid" pilots. A vote for a constitutional amendment should be out soon.

If any of you West pilots want to make any difference you could participate, but I hope not. I was there to tell them that, as of right now, our pilots are essentially working as at will employees. Of course they agreed.

I also talked to many of the current and former BPR reps and encouraged them to consider the possibility of forming a separate corporation that protects the FEDERAL STAUTORY RIGHTS under the EEOC of EQUAL TREATMENT FOR EQUAL WORK. That includes the recognition of MY YEARS OF SERVICE in relation to YOUR years of service. That also includes the FACT that I have the same qualifications and responsibilities to act as pilot in command. The "PIC qualified first officers" should be paid the same as the captains....in fact, we need to ELIMINATE those two words from pilots vocabulary...there should be either "PIC qualified" or nothing. Pilots don't deserve the rank of Captain, which is really a management function. Pilots can barely manage a bowel function as it stands now.

ALL OTHER employee groups get treated that way, why should PILOTS be different.

Oh that's right, pilots are special, especially WEST pilots. Let's face it, I don't like to use the "n" word so let me just say that there is only a snowballs chance in hell that the interests of west pilots and East pilots will Never be together. That was evident yesterday.

We will sue US Airways for disparate treatment and disparate impact claims under the EEOC. We can also add AOL as a named party. I like all this lawsuit stuff.

Of course we learned THIS tactic from our West brothers and sisters. They were very receptive. We're preparing for that possibility.

Thank you WEST pilots for showing us the way.If and when our "labor union" ever disappears is when that issue becomes ripe. Not while labor representation exists on the property, however.
Enjoy your festering propaganda over at cactuspilot.com. I'll scab before I would join the likes of THAT organization.

EDITED BY MODERATOR
Sorry I missed you at the on the 7th, I heard you were there in the morning. Did you see all those guys there. Some of them really want to make things better for all LCC pilots.

Do you really believe that they will give all that up because you want them to.

I heard some unfortunatley have already settled into there old Alpa ways and are really enjoying the perks of what you created for them. Sure they will walk right away from that.

usapa = Alpa at this point, I saw no difference!


Flip

 

[luvthe9]

Actually it should be "Thank you PIT/PHL and their associated reps Cleary, Mowery, Parella, Ciabiattoni, et.al." for ignoring all of the advisors and refusing to negotiate with the west guys while we had the chance under ALPA and then, after Nic told them to modify their proposal, replied "DOH or die"- in his chambers!. Put the blame where it should be, on the guys that would not listen to reason and forced us into a corner and the lemmings who, in their anger and rage, blindly followed them. Ask the USAPA Chancellor what his plan B is, bet their isn't one.
Now we are all reaping what you ardent USAPA supporters sowed and we all must live with. I am sick and tired of this "victim" mentality, man up and admit you F'ed it all up and move on. BTW, I am an east guy and have finally had it with the b'ching and whining, stickers and lanyards.
If you are looking for whose at fault here, I'd suggest you look into a mirror.

I think the west was told the same thing at Wye river.

 

[Metroyet]

I think the west was told the same thing at Wye river.

Told what?

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Since we (DAL) keep getting dragged in...

If that 17 year F/O was at the bottom of DL's (or NW's) list, he would be at the bottom of the combined list. The fact that there could be a 17-year employee still at the bottom of a seniority list, by itself, calls the viability of that employer into question.

GF

9/11..... well, in part.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Actually it should be "Thank you PIT/PHL and their associated reps Cleary, Mowery, Parella, Ciabiattoni, et.al." for ignoring all of the advisors and refusing to negotiate with the west guys while we had the chance under ALPA and then, after Nic told them to modify their proposal, replied "DOH or die"- in his chambers!. Put the blame where it should be, on the guys that would not listen to reason and forced us into a corner and the lemmings who, in their anger and rage, blindly followed them. Ask the USAPA Chancellor what his plan B is, bet their isn't one.
Now we are all reaping what you ardent USAPA supporters sowed and we all must live with. I am sick and tired of this "victim" mentality, man up and admit you F'ed it all up and move on. BTW, I am an east guy and have finally had it with the b'ching and whining, stickers and lanyards.
If you are looking for whose at fault here, I'd suggest you look into a mirror.

Cough, cough... (looks around nervously)

 

[aquagreen73s]

Dear Board and Officers:

It has come to my attention that Cleary has attempted to appoint Jeff Davis to an ad hoc committee, (of one!), for the purpose of usurping duties that are constitutionally specific to the elected office of the Executive Vice President.

Gentlemen, here we go again. Only this time, if you don’t stand up for what is right, I believe you will hear loud and clear, from the line pilots,

Fraternally,

Ardenian

Fantastic letter.

 

[HPDriver]

Then, after Nic told them to modify their proposal, they replied "DOH or die"- in his chambers!.

Like my notes state, it was the east that went into this all or nothing and they got what their greed brought upon them.

Now it's time to sleep in that bed.

Thanks for being honest a320av8R!

 

[HPDriver]

Told what?

He has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Barrister]

Since we (DAL) keep getting dragged in...

If that 17 year F/O was at the bottom of DL's (or NW's) list, he would be at the bottom of the combined list. The fact that there could be a 17-year employee still at the bottom of a seniority list, by itself, calls the viability of that employer into question.

GF

Ok Gone Flying lets see if you got any skin in the game. Since you don't belong to any of the 2 groups and this is the U board what is your DAL hire date and what is the hire date of the NW guy just below and above you. Ante up or get out of the game. And answer the original question: What would be happening to your company right now if your guys lost 10-15-20 years, simple question and I'll bet you won't answer. The Q ain't where is the 17 year guy as much as where is the NEW HIRE!! Plus don't forget we recalled 500 guys before NIC was decided. So much for snapshots. PS we won't forget that your CEO was on records that your recovery plan was based on U going out of business. How is that going!! Last I looked your merger ain't exactly paying off.

VNIIMN

 

[hp_fa]

Ok Gone Flying lets see if you got any skin in the game.

Last I knew folks on this PUBLIC message board were not required to have "skin in the game" to post here. If that displeases you take your skin to your PRIVATE USAPA board.

 

[HPDriver]

Last I looked your merger ain't exactly paying off.

VNIIMN

Patience.

As your DCA reps indicated, you guys will have it all figured out this year.

 

[Barrister]

Last I knew folks on this PUBLIC message board were not required to have "skin in the game" to post here. If that displeases you take your skin to your PRIVATE USAPA board.

OK, for you sensitive types how's this?

Dear Gone Fishing,

Would you would do us the honor sir of telling us how you were affected or not affected in your recent merger with Northwest Airline.

How's that HP !! Don't want to offend your highly tuned sensibilities!
VNIIMN

 

[Barrister]

Last I knew folks on this PUBLIC message board were not required to have "skin in the game" to post here. If that displeases you take your skin to your PRIVATE USAPA board.

Oh and HP let me be clear on something.......if you don't have skin in the game
and a VOTE your opinion simply does not matter....Clear.

VNIIMN