US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/6- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[Pi brat]

Admittedly (as previously stated, Dave can get somewhat over zealous) the goat video was a bit much. In frustration we watched Bradford lead a band of USAPA organizers to form a "union", the sole purpose of which was to negate the final and binding seniority arbitration.

If you could get the USAPA Van to Seniority Freedom to admit to their transgressions, perhaps Dave would also apologize. What we have here is a situation that we all need to get over. We can start by electing a joint cadre of east and west pilots to makeover USAPA. We can make this happen together, BUT it will take every lurker and "head-in-the-sand" US Airways pilot to become a Member in Good Standing (MIGS) and exercise your voting rights.

The ONLY parties that have ultimately won in the past 4.5 years is LCC & SSM&P. Only we can change that as a collective body. Only when we stop pointing fingers and get past the pointless litigation will we be able to aim our will toward LCC.

What say you?

I agree with most of this, but the video was more than a bit much and pointed to an unstable person. I personally asked to him to remove it, with a pretty nasty response.

I'm sure there are many west pilots that would do a great job and that I would vote for, he's just not one of them.

 

[LSS]

There’s a much bigger population of “west supporters†than there are of “east supporters†to draw comments from:
East supporters:
1) East pilots
2) East pilots’ wives
3) Some east flight attendants
West supporters:
1) West pilots
2) Some east pilots
3) OAL pilots
4) Current and former US/HP employees who would like to see this resolved
5) Company management (already accepted the NIC)
6) The ALPA Arbitration Board assigned to the US/HP Pilot Seniority Integration
7) A Federal District Judge
8) A Federal Jury
9) A Federal Court of Appeals (coming soon to a verdict near you)
10) Just about any casually interested party who believes that people should honor their contractual agreements

Of your "West Supporters" above... 3 through 10 don't matter... none of them have a voice (read… vote) in ratifying a joint contract... no matter their opinion, position, or otherwise.... [you can scream, shout, stamp your feet, call the east names, deny jump-seats, despise USAPA and throw tantrums… won’t change a thing!]

However, a joint contract may be achievable if DP would throw enough money at this pilot group... particularly to compensate the F/O's so it wouldn't matter if they ever made captain or not, [or how many positions they feel they were screwed by having someone with far less time in service leap frog them by hundreds of numbers] and negotiate a fair, industry standard contract --- Considering the philosophy of this POS company and it's CEO & Pres ... does anyone honestly believe that would ever happen anytime in the foreseeable future??? I don’t!

However, for those improvements… there’s also the distinct possibility that if U entered into BK yet again… all the improvements would undoubtedly fall by the wayside, including pay… and the only thing the BK court could never touch would be the DOH seniority… so those who were the most severly harmed by not using DOH [with conditions and restrictions protecting the West pilot's positions] would be screwed again by agreeing to pieces of silver initially to give up the most sacred of tenets in a pilot’s career.

 

[Metroyet]

Of your "West Supporters" above... 3 through 10 don't matter... none of them have a voice (read… vote) in ratifying a joint contract... no matter their opinion, position, or otherwise.... [you can scream, shout, stamp your feet, call the east names, deny jump-seats, despise USAPA and throw tantrums… won’t change a thing!]

However, a joint contract may be achievable if DP would throw enough money at this pilot group... particularly to compensate the F/O's so it wouldn't matter if they ever made captain or not, [or how many positions they feel they were screwed by having someone with far less time in service leap frog them by hundreds of numbers] and negotiate a fair, industry standard contract --- Considering the philosophy of this POS company and it's CEO & Pres ... does anyone honestly believe that would ever happen anytime in the foreseeable future??? I don’t!

However, for those improvements… there’s also the distinct possibility that if U entered into BK yet again… all the improvements would undoubtedly fall by the wayside, including pay… and the only thing the BK court could never touch would be the DOH seniority… so those who were the most severly harmed by not using DOH [with conditions and restrictions protecting the West pilot's positions] would be screwed again by agreeing to pieces of silver initially to give up the most sacred of tenets in a pilot’s career.

Yawn..... Snort............. Rub eyes.........stretch.................. Roll over........................back....... to....... sleep....................................................

 

[Ardenian]

There’s a much bigger population of “west supportersâ€￾ than there are of “east supportersâ€￾ to draw comments from...

Which is why I cannot beleive there is no defense (or even discussion) on this board of the "ALPA-ites" who are going to be the ones who bring USAPA down.

CLEARY = ALPA

 

[HPDriver]

However, for those improvements… there’s also the distinct possibility that if U entered into BK yet again… all the improvements would undoubtedly fall by the wayside, including pay… and the only thing the BK court could never touch would be the DOH seniority… so those who were the most severly harmed by not using DOH [with conditions and restrictions protecting the West pilot's positions] would be screwed again by agreeing to pieces of silver initially to give up the most sacred of tenets in a pilot’s career.

Keep reaching sport-o.

 

[HP2USFA]

Out of 33 posts in this thread, 22 are from the West and 11 from the East. That goes to ad credence to my post in the last thread.

I'm also curious why this matters at all? Certainly you're not just trying to bad mouth folks for posting here? Would love to hear your reasoning behind this post. Since you've taken the time to count posts. I'm also curious to know how you're able to differentiate between true West individuals and people simply posting their approval for a point made by a West? Or someone who simply disagrees with a post from the East?

And again, why the number of posts matters in the long run?

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Out of 33 posts in this thread, 22 are from the West and 11 from the East. That goes to ad credence to my post in the last thread.

Thank you for letting the rest of us into the wine enabled ability of commenting on this topic.

I will always remember you for such an intelligent post. I'm sure your husband is very proud. Ditto,ditto...etc

Come back for more - please!

Thank You!

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Out of 33 posts in this thread, 22 are from the West and 11 from the East. That goes to ad credence to my post in the last thread.

Why not letting your husband speak for himself? But shine girl - shine!

The more you post the more you show your IQ.

You go girl!

 

[LSS]

That passage is quite apropos in describing the east mentality.

It's funny listening to you try to portray yourself as the victim when, in reality, everything you wrote describes YOU!

Since you're in a Cliff Notes mood, I've got some for you:

1. East pilots' careers in retrograde. Many FO's will never see the left seat again and are, instead, flying RJ's.

2. Merger is announced and east pilots' see this as an opportunity to reverse the slid their careers have taken by stealing advancement from the west.

3. This can only be done if DOH is implemented along with no fences so that east pilots may bid PHX.

4. East pilots tell west pilots they will eventually inherit the airline in a few years down the road so it all OK. They fail to promise the west pilots that an airline will actually be an airline to inherit.

5. East MC pulls out of merger talks and requests med/arb. Stands by DOH integration and refuses to move off position.

6. The east is handed and fair seniority list by Nicolau but refuses to accept it because it is not DOH.

7. East forms USAPA and begins to perpetually "f" things up over and over.


And there you have it. The east's entitlement attitude and hubris have once again bit them in the ass.

You WERE recognized for your years of service at AAA just as I was at AWA. Those years were then combined in a list that equally recognized both sides. Just because your GREED was NOT SATIATED, doesn't mean the list isn't fair.

It is. Parker has it. The law recognizes it. It's not going anywhere, EVER!

That ideology that I referred to that the east uses to justify is unlawful activities is DOH. And DOH was NOT used with DAL/NWA so your "DOH has ALWAYS BEEN a fundamentally recognized UNION PREMISE" is a FALSE premise.

Get over it JJ. Move on. You've lost.

Yawn..... Snort............. Rub eyes.........stretch.................. Roll over........................back....... to....... sleep....................................................

 

[Richard]

Folks,

I just deleted a BUNCH of posts which violate the rules of the board. What part of no personal remarks don't you understand? In particular, all references to "nitpicking" have been deleted...and a couple of suspensions have been issued.

You ALL need to read the rules again...and OBSERVE them.

This is a final reminder...

Think before you post.

 

[767intl]

A letter from the US Department of Labor has been received by USAPA concerning a complaint by David Schoppaul. I have received a copy from a committe member. The PDF file is too large to post here.

The DOL has ruled that no irregularities occured in the election cycle in question. The full report should be available to all shortly on the USAPA web site or by wide email distribution.

If that's true, then it's "another win for USAPA"!! Three cheers for USAPA!!

It is true, 53. Your sarcasm is noted, but as usual, serves no purpose other than to make you feel good as USAPA gets on track with more "wins" while you hope for losses. Your Goat Man lost. Get over it.

????? You have got to be kidding! Dave is simply trying to get someone ....anyone of the west cadre in to a position in USAPA. Our goal is to MAKE USAPA a true union that represents ALL US Airways pilots (as they advertise). Dave is a straight shooter and will never sell out ANY US Airways pilot if we join forces and move forward.

Yeah, we heard he was a real "straight shooter." BTW, you got 3 "anyones" already on the BPR board. No West MIG has been turned down for any committee position. You could have had 4 BPRs if you could get more than 650 PHX pilots to join. and pay dues.

This union should cost 1/2 of what we are paying if we would move together as a single group toward a single new contract. Instead, "we" are wasting MILLIONS of dollars on HOPELESS, FRUITLESS, POINTLESS litigation. The winner you ask? SSM&P......no one else.

The last I heard, the 9th hasn't ruled. POINTLESS litigation. I assume you'll call the DFR pointless if you lose? BTW, we didn't sue. You did. 767Intl

 

[nic4us]

Appartently yesterdays LAS picket was successful in getting some media attention.

To give credit where credit is due, it is my understanding that Cleary, Mowery and other east pilots came out to LAS in support. Perhaps a West poster who attended can confirm the identity of the other east participants so they can also be recognized.

So, anyone got any first hand info?

Well since I got no reply, I found the info elsewhere, and will reply to myself.

Cleary, Mowery, Streble, Theur, Ray, Borman, Smyser, Odato, et al.

Apologies if there are any mispellings or omissions. I am unfamiliar with the last three, and it is my understanding some others who live in proximity may have also attended.

On a side note, rumor has it the planned furloughs of some 34 West pilots in this next round will no longer be needed, any info circulating on that topic.

 

[Barrister]

Yawn..... Snort............. Rub eyes.........stretch.................. Roll over........................back....... to....... sleep....................................................

To continue to compare DAL/NW to this snake pit shows the true divide between our 2 groups. If there had been a 17 year never furloughed NW guy place junior to a DAL new hire where do you think they would be now!!!!. Plus what would NIC think about the fact that one of your 2 bases has closed and PHX is in the top 3 worst cities economically in the US. What would be your career expectation be if we were in arbitration NOW. It would not be good. And i really like the analogy a few posts ago. Where does the West furloughees fit in in the next merger.....which is practically guaranteed to result in more furloughs. Thank you NIC can you say QUAGMIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VNIIMN

 

[a320av8r]

... Thank you NIC can you say QUAGMIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

VNIIMN

Actually it should be "Thank you PIT/PHL and their associated reps Cleary, Mowery, Parrella, Cibiattoni, et.al." for ignoring all of the advisors and refusing to negotiate with the west guys while we had the chance under ALPA. Then, after Nic told them to modify their proposal, they replied "DOH or die"- in his chambers!. Put the blame where it should be, on the guys that would not listen to reason and forced us into a corner and the lemmings who, in their anger and rage, blindly followed them. Ask the USAPA Chancellor what his plan B is, bet their isn't one.
Now we are all reaping what you ardent USAPA supporters sowed and we all must live with. I am sick and tired of this "victim" mentality, man up and admit you F'ed it all up and move on. BTW, I am an east guy and have finally had it with the b'ching and whining, stickers and lanyards.
If you are looking for who's at fault here, I'd suggest you look into a mirror.

 

[goneflyin]

If there had been a 17 year never furloughed NW guy place junior to a DAL new hire where do you think they would be now!!!!.

Since we (DAL) keep getting dragged in...

If that 17 year F/O was at the bottom of DL's (or NW's) list, he would be at the bottom of the combined list. The fact that there could be a 17-year employee still at the bottom of a seniority list, by itself, calls the viability of that employer into question.

GF