US Pilots Labor Discussion 1/6- OBSERVE THE RULES OF THE BOARD!

[luvn737s]

NYC-
How do you think Cleary can avoid putting a contract (with Nic) out to a vote in a reasonable amount of time? How do you see Cleary meeting his responsibility to present, support and defend such a T/A?

If the votes are as you say, let's see them.

 

[BoeingBoy]

NYC can answer at his leisure, but I'll say this...

Question 1 presumes a specific definition of "in a reasonable amount of time", Since the time frame isn't entirely governed by USAPA, that's a pretty broad parameter. If negotiations are being mediated and the mediator hasn't declared an impasse due to USAPA's lack of good faith, I'm not sure how long a "reasonable amount of time" would be but almost certainly not months.

Question 2 is easy. It's not like it'll be a big secret that Nic is in the ta (assuming the injunction stands) so Cleary can just say that the BPR and officers endorse the ta while at the same time knowing that pilots who are going to vote against it because of the Nic will do so. Any fence sitters will be in the same position they are today - having to decide if any benefits of the ta offset the Nic.

I agree with what I think is the thrust of your questions. It's easy for a relative handful of posters to say that a contract containing NIC will never pass but something else to actually have a ta on the table and see the outcome of a vote.

Jim

 

[HPDriver]

I agree with what I think is the thrust of your questions. It's easy for a relative handful of posters to say that a contract containing NIC will never pass but something else to actually have a ta on the table and see the outcome of a vote.

Jim

And I think a lot of the angry FO's realize this. That "resolve" is crumbling, they see it, and they know they can no longer trust their own to vote to keep Nic away.

That kitchen table test is going to be very hard to get past. The east posters can say all they want , but LOA 93 is taking a huge toll.

I read on another board that a 5 year Jetblue captain makes 130 an hour up to 75 hours and then time and a half kicks in. With a 95 hour line, his blended hourly rate ends up being 150 an hour.

A 5 year jetblue guy on the EMB making more than most east captains.

 

[traderjake]

Just remember all the way back to 1992 the East Pilots have never met a concession they didnt like, they were always the first group to agree and ratify concessions before anyone else and even settled before US filed bankruptcy in both cases.

Put the threat to their head and they caved every time.

How many Aircraft Cleaners does USAirways employ today?

How many mechanics are pushing back airplanes?

We're not the only ones who agree to concessions.

 

[700UW]

50, you agreed to concessions, we had our CBA abrogated in court and the membership ratified a final offer from the company.

And HMV work was brought back inhouse and raises given, can you say the same?

And in 92 we went on strike to get a better deal, your group caved everytime, we voted down CBAs in 92 and 99 and 02, can you say the same?

And when I left US I was a Stock Clerk, not Utility.

And your group ratified concessions greater than the company ask last time.

 

[BoeingBoy]

That kitchen table test is going to be very hard to get past.

That is something I can't judge. Like most pilot groups (I suspect) most of the East pilots go to work, fly their trip and go home. They really don't pay that much attention to what is going on. There's probably no more than a couple hundred that are active on the various web forums and the rest are left with crew room and cockpit gossip. So when the time comes to vote a lot will depend on whether they believe the urban legends that have sprung up since the Nic came out.

While I agree that support for USAPA is waning (I wouldn't necessarily say crumbling quite yet), I too see signs of unhappiness even from some who worked hard getting USAPA up and going (this isn't the only pilot forum I keep tabs on, just the only one I post regularly on).

So with nothing more than that to go on I think it would be close if a vote were being held today. How that changes depends on future events. If the 9th affirms the District Court's ruling and the LOA arbitration goes badly (both of which I believe have better than even odds of happening) that could change things and make ratification of a TA more likely.

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

"would" is generally considered to be speculative, an into the future, qualifier. No need here. The West actually DID win Addington. Past tense. It's over already. I don't know why news takes so long to hit you guys but facts remain none the less.

YCS"VNIIMN"UYSA.

Okay. If you insist on parsing words, then let me paraphrase Underpants:

"Winning Addington is the worst case scenario for the West pilots..."

There. It's over. And it's still the worst case scenario for the west. You have your contract for the next decade WITHOUT the Nicolau list attached.

Feel better now?

 

[nycbusdriver]

And you'll be under LOA93 the whole time.

So be it. For me personally, it's not that big a deal. I've managed to take advantage of the real attrition that the east has in process. I'm paid more than any pilot in the west, and over the course of my career, I'm eons ahead of any west pilot.

For those east pilots not as fortunate seniority-wise, they are also the most motivated to accept LOA 93 rather than give up any seniority they've earned and hand it over to relative newcomers to the industry.

LOA 93? Bring it on!

 

[USlurker]

In scenario one, the 9th Circuit rendered the same ruling as the 9th District. In scenario two the rulings are at odds.

Which group stands a better chance of being heard at SCOTUS?

There have been some studies on the question the effect of a circuit court ruling overturning a district court ruling or upholding it affects the likelihood of the SCOTUS granting cert. The conclusion was that there is no statistically significant effect. Having different rulings at the circuit court level does have a significant effect, but that isn't what you are looking at here. It is hard for me to imagine that the constitutional issues are interesting enough to merit a look from SCOTUS, but you never know. An appeal could certainly result in yet another long delay while everyone waits to see what they do.

 

[Richard]

Time for a new thread....