US Pilot Labor Thread 10/5 to 10/12 KEEP ON TOPIC

[tazz]

BS. Call us when the contract's done, since any seniority list is established by such, otherwise?..How about just shut up and go away Do you even have any idea of how much anti-westie-mosquitoe spray costs? "West Nile Virus" has an entirely new meaning with you sorry people....

Come on folks..You should certainly have some ferocious westie "warriors" available at this early hour out there? NiceLandingCaptain will naturally be hiding under the nearest rock of course, and awaiting some "safe" time to again surface... but hey...aren't there more, ready and willing to state exactly why they're so very "special" as to be engaged in the moronic and pointless antics that they are out west?...just curious

Good old eastus, always providing the best in amusement.
I do believe we have a meltdown underway........

 

[tazz]

Well..I was almost fine when it was limited to "deleted by moderator"..But..I'm damned if I'll go with wholesale "politically correct" editing, by way of having postings just entirely "disapppear" and be replaced by others......That's not even a small excuse for any "dialog"..that's just total BS...Period. I think it best just to then leave this place to the fake westie "war heros"........ I've a son with two Iraq tours now..I lost a friend in '91 in the Sandbox Games, when we were there...and I'm damned if I'll have some "moderator" remove my posts indicative of proper digust for the likes of NLC's, entirely fantasized, totally BS "heroics"..or those of any such lying con artist, pretending to have "fought"..but is naught but hot air and fantasy....such pathetic creatures merely shame all who've actually served...period...Nor will, nor can I ever be expected to tolerate any such scum...PERIOD...If it's "incorrect" or a "personal attack" to properly call some smarmy, lying, complete jerkoff on his utter BS... and full-fledged cowardice..I'm done wasting time here......

I bid all a fine and joyous life and a good night.

For the utterly pathetic likes of NiceLandingCaptain..and all of you out west who so eagerly support his/your "INTEGRITY MATTERS" Fantasy?...Kiss my arse.

Yep, he's lost it.

 

[Phoenix]

Yeah, that's why east pilots who were furloughed when the acquisition occurred are placed senior to AWA captains with more actual service to the company on the usapa "dream list" . And that's why pilots hired a year ago are still working while west pilots with four years seniority/service are in the unemployment line. Good one, I'm still laughing.

Four years seniority. I am not clear on your position... That seems like such a narrow minded way of expressing seniority.

 

[machtuck]

I keep hearing the word "acquisition" from you guys...never hear it from Parker though...and I've seen the filings myself. Tazz, would you like to explain why America West Holdings (along with AWA) are SUBSIDIARIES of USAirways? Can you explain Lakefields activities in drumming up the Wall Street cash if AWA "bought/acquired" USAirways?

It's a rhetorical question, you can't, and I don't need to hear the same worn out song about it. Funny the CEO and you disagree...oh well.
The only thing "you" provided was a CEO who was up against the wall with your airline, out of liquidity, and that same CEO went for a "consolidation" ...it's called a MERGER. Say it with me, slowly...M E R G E R...

As to "stealing you candy" (NIC)...we're just taking the candy back...it was never actually yours to begin with.

As to the "aquisition" of USAirways by America West:

I'll help you with the first few lines from the 10-Q:

"On Sept 26th 2007, as part of the integration efforts follwing the merger of USAirways Group And America West Holdings in Sept. 2005, AWA surrendered it's FAA operating certificate. As a result, all future mainline airline operations will be conducted under USAirways FAA certificate. In connection with the combination of all mainline operations under one certificate, USAirways Group has contributed 100% of it's equity interest in America West Holdings to USAirways. As a result, America West Holdings and it's wholly-owned subsidiary, America West Airlines, are now wholly owned subsidiaries of USAirways. In addition, AWA transferred all of it's assets and liabilities to USAirways...."

there's plenty more, but you may stop the jaundiced rhetoric about "who acquired who"....the transaction was not funded by AWA in any way shape or form...you had Parker....thanks a lot.

 

[Phoenix]

.... As bad as Marshal Law was, that was a CLT side-show. what convinced me ALPO had to go was the treatment of our PHL Reps, throwing them out because they wouldnt take the ALPO loyalty oath, so Joe McCarthy. and putting in two ALPO suck-ups was the last straw for the fence-sitters here. ..

Yes.. ALPA national was intent on keeping the suckups in CLT at all costs, and at all cost removing the PHL reps to install suckup replacements. ALPA National not only sat by and watched the flaunting of abuse of power but seemed too eager to take an active role. They made it very clear that the premise of ALPA was not representation.

If the vote results had kept ALPA on property.. just imagine. :unsure:

 

[Edward]

Well..I was almost fine when it was limited to "deleted by moderator"..But..I'm damned if I'll go with wholesale "politically correct" editing, by way of having postings just entirely "disapppear" and be replaced by others......That's not even a small excuse for any "dialog"..that's just total BS...Period. I think it best just to then leave this place to the fake westie "war heros"........ I've a son with two Iraq tours now..I lost a friend in '91 in the Sandbox Games, when we were there...and I'm damned if I'll have some "moderator" remove my posts indicative of proper digust for the likes of NLC's, entirely fantasized, totally BS "heroics"..or those of any such lying con artist, pretending to have "fought"..but is naught but hot air and fantasy....such pathetic creatures merely shame all who've actually served...period...Nor will, nor can I ever be expected to tolerate any such scum...PERIOD...If it's "incorrect" or a "personal attack" to properly call some smarmy, lying, complete jerkoff on his utter BS... and full-fledged cowardice..I'm done wasting time here......

I bid all a fine and joyous life and a good night.

For the utterly pathetic likes of NiceLandingCaptain..and all of you out west who so eagerly support his/your "INTEGRITY MATTERS" Fantasy?...Kiss my arse.

For those who think this has gone un noticed it has not.....I'm leaving this up here to show you that moderator challenge & making it personal WILL get you time off.

 

[TWAFlyer]

I keep hearing the word "acquisition" from you guys...never hear it from Parker though...and I've seen the filings myself. Tazz, would you like to explain why America West Holdings (along with AWA) are SUBSIDIARIES of USAirways? Can you explain Lakefields activities in drumming up the Wall Street cash if AWA "bought/acquired" USAirways?

It's a rhetorical question, you can't, and I don't need to hear the same worn out song about it. Funny the CEO and you disagree...oh well.
The only thing "you" provided was a CEO who was up against the wall with your airline, out of liquidity, and that same CEO went for a "consolidation" ...it's called a MERGER. Say it with me, slowly...M E R G E R...

As to "stealing you candy" (NIC)...we're just taking the candy back...it was never actually yours to begin with.

As to the "aquisition" of USAirways by America West:

I'll help you with the first few lines from the 10-Q:

"On Sept 26th 2007, as part of the integration efforts follwing the merger of USAirways Group And America West Holdings in Sept. 2005, AWA surrendered it's FAA operating certificate. As a result, all future mainline airline operations will be conducted under USAirways FAA certificate. In connection with the combination of all mainline operations under one certificate, USAirways Group has contributed 100% of it's equity interest in America West Holdings to USAirways. As a result, America West Holdings and it's wholly-owned subsidiary, America West Airlines, are now wholly owned subsidiaries of USAirways. In addition, AWA transferred all of it's assets and liabilities to USAirways...."

there's plenty more, but you may stop the jaundiced rhetoric about "who acquired who"....the transaction was not funded by AWA in any way shape or form...you had Parker....thanks a lot.

The HP/US Deal - A Non-Overlapping Asset Buy. Not A Merger of Two Global Carriers. It's important to point out that the America West purchase of US Airways is galaxies away from the types of major carrier mergers such as that contemplated by the folks at the top of United. US Airways was essentially an East Coast cadaver, and America West bought it, with the goal of tying the two systems together. Not much overlap. Actually, employees of the former US Airways should have votive candles lit in front of images of Doug Parker. If HP had not decided to take a chance buying an airline system on the other side of the continent, unemployment lines would be a lot longer today in Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Philadelphia.

Source: Micheal Boyd’s Aviation Hot Flash for the week of September 26, 2006.

 

[LSS]

Pilots differ on seniority terms

Last update: October 6, 2008 - 9:44 PM

Delta Air Lines pilots want their seniority list merged with Northwest Airlines' pilot list based on pilots' status and aircraft category, while Northwest pilots insist the fair and equitable method is to merge the lists based on date of hire.

The arguments were laid out during closed-door arbitration hearings that began Thursday at a hotel near Los Angeles. News media have been barred from the hearings, which will continue later this month and again next month.

The two groups have been in a stalemate over seniority after Delta acquires Northwest later this year, although they have approved a joint collective bargaining agreement covering more than 12,000 pilots.
Seniority brings priority for choice of vacations, routes and the bigger airplanes with higher pay. Northwest pilots tend to be older than Delta pilots because many of Delta's senior pilots retired in the run-up to its 2005 bankruptcy filing.

ASSOCIATED PRESS

 

[machtuck]

The HP/US Deal - A Non-Overlapping Asset Buy. Not A Merger of Two Global Carriers. It's important to point out that the America West purchase of US Airways is galaxies away from the types of major carrier mergers such as that contemplated by the folks at the top of United. US Airways was essentially an East Coast cadaver, and America West bought it, with the goal of tying the two systems together. Not much overlap. Actually, employees of the former US Airways should have votive candles lit in front of images of Doug Parker. If HP had not decided to take a chance buying an airline system on the other side of the continent, unemployment lines would be a lot longer today in Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Philadelphia.

Source: Micheal Boyd’s Aviation Hot Flash for the week of September 26, 2006.

Oh my, I stand corrected...any blog by Michael Boyd spouting his OPINIONS sure trumps the SEC filings I quoted as far as the LEGAL TRANSACTION that took place...

Lets see: a direct quote from the USAirways 10-Q filing with the SEC, or an op-ed by Michael Boyd...analyst to the stars...

Thanks anyway, sport, I'll stick with the LEGAL document every time.

 

[Res Judicata]

How very "interesting"..two of my posts have "disappeared"..not "deleted by moderator" but entirely gone now, without a trace? Amusing. Allow me the priveledge of reposting the no-doubt last one to you then

So be it then. Any individual that's falsely claimed combat theater flying without ever even getting close to any war zone, is, of himself a "personal attack" to all who've ever served, much less all those who've perished for our Nation throughout our history, all those currently in harm's way, and is simply an utterly vile and despicable excuse for ANY sembalnce of a supposed "man". Such a pathetic creature I can never have even the slightest respect for in any way, shape or form, and I question any that'd cloak or protect such cowardly and utterly despicable behavior..for whatever reasons..much less by way of supposed "civility"....

When NLC was spewing forth batchlots of utter and complete lies about his self-assigned, and entirely false, BS "heroics"..and was immediately proven to be a wholesale con artist and BS-spewing fire hose..None saw any need for censorship....Interesting priorities as to what's "civil" on these boards

Perhaps it's just as well, as I've had my full fill of west notions of what constitutes "INTEGRITY" in any case.

Ciao

PS: It's not "personal" with NLC, as I find any that impersonate and/or pass themselves off as imaginary "war heros" to be equally disgusting.

Moderators?...I don't flatter myself that I'm of any great benefit towards enhancing your readership numbers..but..since you've the notions of having my postings become not merely "deleted by moderator" ..but entirely "disappear"at your slightest whim instead?...Go F yourselves...we're done here. Have a good one. ..."and I question any that'd cloak or protect such cowardly and utterly despicable behavior" ..With all proper and due disrespect for those that would simply pretend that something wasn't ever said...much akin to Stalinists "purging" people from pictures. my last posting was number 111, (and there's now a "new" number 111) which I did print the "real" 111, and have a copy of, having noted a prior "disappearance"... should any wonder at the truth of it...no matter I suppose,....have fun All and take care in life

PS Folks..don't be surprised if this too..just disappears

"Lighten up Francis..."

 

[Res Judicata]

Actually, employees of the former US Airways should have votive candles lit in front of images of Doug Parker. If HP had not decided to take a chance buying an airline system on the other side of the continent, unemployment lines would be a lot longer today in Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Washington, and Philadelphia.

Source: Micheal Boyd’s Aviation Hot Flash for the week of September 26, 2006.

This is the kind of reality dose that repels Easties like sunlight to a Vampire. Perhaps they should Alert Seham and see if Boyd can be sued into submission. It hasn't worked yet for them but who knows. Keep on paying that parasite lawyer and do you best Stuart Smalley self affirmation exercise in the mirror.

 

[machtuck]

This is the kind of reality dose that repels Easties like sunlight to a Vampire. Perhaps they should Alert Seham and see if Boyd can be sued into submission. It hasn't worked yet for them but who knows. Keep on paying that parasite lawyer and do you best Stuart Smalley self affirmation exercise in the mirror.

I love it...you guys keep quoting a quack analyst (or ANY analyst for that matter) and compare and contrast it to the 10-Q I quoted...

Take my advice, stop illustrating your "sources" of "facts" as being from an airline analyst.

I note that tazz is at least wise enough to recognize the SEC 10-Q filing, maybe he's checking it for accuracy, but he went silent...smart move, tazz.

TWAflyer, notsomuch.

LSS...interesting, deja-vu.

 

[TWAFlyer]

Oh my, I stand corrected...any blog by Michael Boyd spouting his OPINIONS sure trumps the SEC filings I quoted as far as the LEGAL TRANSACTION that took place...

Lets see: a direct quote from the USAirways 10-Q filing with the SEC, or an op-ed by Michael Boyd...analyst to the stars...

Thanks anyway, sport, I'll stick with the LEGAL document every time.

Mach or Sport or whatever..........

Here is the "official word" from the CFO. Your interpretation appears skewed. I can read a 10K as well, but it doesn't mean I can fully understand its' full details.

Cheers


Derek Kerr - US Airways Group Inc. - CFO
Thanks, Doug. We filed a new US Airway Group's 10-Q for the third quarter this morning and in that Q we reported a net loss
of 87 million or $5.04 per diluted share. This compares to a net loss of 25 million -- 29 million or $1.92 per share a year-ago. If
you exclude special items, the Company's net loss for the third quarter improved to 23 million or $1.33 per diluted share from
a net loss of 46 million or $3.06 per diluted share.
Let me take a minute here and explain what is included in the reported numbers since I'm sure it's very confusing for everyone.
First, although we merged -- although the merger was legally structured so that America West Holdings was acquired by and
became a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group, America West Holdings is treated as the acquiring company for
accounting purposes and that's some of the reasons for the numbers we have out there. The impact of the results is that the
new US Airways Group only existed for four days during the quarter so just from September 27, to the 30, past the closing of
the transaction is the only numbers that US Airways Groups has in here. Thus the results contain 88 days of America West
Holdings the accounting acquire plus 4 days of the US Airways Group. Now, under GAAP the 2005 third quarter must be compared
to 92 days only of America West Holdings. So you have an extra four days of revenues and costs associated with US Airways,
Inc. in 2005 but not in 2004 so this makes the comparisons a little skewed. And as I about go through and explain some of the
numbers I'll try to explain the differences.
The 10-Q, which went out this morning will break out those four days of US Airways Group so you can see the impact of how
much US Airways Group has on the fourth quarter. Now. for the next four quarters, per GAAP rules, we'll have to compare
quarterly data to America West Holdings Inc. so we'll have this problem as we go forward for the next four quarters. We realize
that this isn't extremely meaningful and we're working out a way to provide more meaningful pro forma financial data. If we
can figure out a good way to do that without major reconciliation to GAAP issues, we'll provide an 8-K at a later date that gives
us more pro forma data of the two airlines combined.
The second issue involves the low share count used to calculate earnings per share. The merger results in a very low number
of reported average shares outstanding for two main reasons. The Class A and Class B America West shares were converted into
US Airways Group shares at ratios so the total A and B shares which used to be 36 million shares are now approximately 15
million so we've cut them more than in half. The second issue is the new group shares only existed for four days as I said before,
so the weighted average of those shares in the calculation is very small. There's only 2 million shares included so therefore what
we have is 17.3 million shares for the quarter. The actual number of shares outstanding today is 82 million so going forward
you should use the 82 million number for shares for US Airways Group.
Now that I'm sure everything is crystal clear. Let me talk a little bit about each company's reported numbers starting with the
US Airways stand alone. Though they are not included in the Company's consolidated results, except for four days after the
merger closed, the financials are in the press release tables. US Airways, Inc. reported net income of 588 million for the third
quarter 2005 which included a non-cash gain of 668 million related to the Company's recent reorganization. If you exclude the
reorganization gain, US Airways reported a net loss of $80 million for the third quarter 2005.

LCC - Q3 2005 US Airways Group Inc. Earnings Conference Call
Event Date/Time: Nov. 09. 2005 / 11:00AM ET

 

[machtuck]

Mach or Sport or whatever..........

Here is the "official word" from the CFO. Your interpretation appears skewed. I can read a 10K as well, but it doesn't mean I can fully understand its' full details.

Cheers


Derek Kerr - US Airways Group Inc. - CFO
Thanks, Doug. We filed a new US Airway Group's 10-Q for the third quarter this morning and in that Q we reported a net loss
of 87 million or $5.04 per diluted share. This compares to a net loss of 25 million -- 29 million or $1.92 per share a year-ago. If
you exclude special items, the Company's net loss for the third quarter improved to 23 million or $1.33 per diluted share from
a net loss of 46 million or $3.06 per diluted share.
Let me take a minute here and explain what is included in the reported numbers since I'm sure it's very confusing for everyone.
First, although we merged -- although the merger was legally structured so that America West Holdings was acquired by and
became a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group, America West Holdings is treated as the acquiring company for
accounting purposes and that's some of the reasons for the numbers we have out there.

In order to conserve bandwidth, I copied part...and I again illustrate the legal structure of the MERGER.

"for accounting purposes"...do you think that means AWA wrote a check to buy Airways?...what check? where? for how much?

These bean counters had to cook up a way to pencil this deal out on paper, it was clearly an issue for them since he's explaining it to Parker for about the third time. I never claimed USAirways bought America West Airlines..not once, but likewise, America West Airlines did not buy USAirways....as you all continue to assert. I use the SEC 10-Q to illustrate the corporate structure that exists, and it only exists like this because AWA did NOT, in fact, "acquire" USAirways...they merged.

Apparently, you are not comfortable with the notion that we merged with ALL outside funding, primarily by the work of USAirways CEO, Bruce Lakefield.

whatever.

 

[TWAFlyer]

"for accounting purposes"...do you think that means AWA wrote a check to buy Airways?...what check? where? for how much?

These bean counters had to cook up a way to pencil this deal out on paper, it was clearly an issue for them since he's explaining it to Parker for about the third time. I never claimed USAirways bought America West Airlines..not once, but likewise, America West Airlines did not buy USAirways....as you all continue to assert. I use the SEC 10-Q to illustrate the corporate structure that exists, and it only exists like this because AWA did NOT, in fact, "acquire" USAirways...they merged.

Apparently, you are not comfortable with the notion that we merged with ALL outside funding, primarily by the work of USAirways CEO, Bruce Lakefield.

whatever.

Mach,

The reality and gravity of the situation is very clear to me. I fully understand the reverse accounting utilized to consumate the transaction. What you fail to recognize is the simple fact that without the "merger" as you claim, AWA would still be around. USAirways ultimate survival hinged entirely upon this deal. There were no other bidders for the assets of USAirways. Time was of the essence.

The unique fact of this transaction, was that the investment monies came from outside sources, as opposed to a share purchase like DAL/NWA. This is what you discounted in Boyd's observation. Keep in mind, AWA stock had value at the time which was realized by the shareholders. USAirways was in bankruptcy number 2.

I'm not stating that there was no value in USAirways, because there was. Both companies could have used this opportunity to spring forward and be a real competitor as a single entity. Unfortunately, there are those who chose to fight the processes afforded for a fair integration of the pilot labor groups, based soley on these kind of "observations."

I was initially encouraged as to the possible success of the "New" entity, however, watching the events unfold, realized otherwise. I often wonder how things might have been different, had the East pilots followed some of their own advise.

“ For us, the
lesson may be
that no matter
where we came
from or where
we may end up
on the integrated
seniority list, the
real goal is to
work for a
company that
wins in the
marketplace. â€￾

“ The sooner
we all see
ourselves as the
new US Airways,
the sooner we
can identify the
real fights ahead
and move to win
them. â€￾

The Fastest Road
to Success
Richard Obermeyer (LGA)
Editor, US AIRWAVES
Fall/Winter 2005

Cheers.......